The Jagdtiger issue

[Venoxxis]

Hey again folks,
this thread is about the heaviest unit in the game, which doenst feels like the heaviest yet, even because of its awesome () model!

The main problem about its feeling, is its way too fast spining-around-speed. Its spining even faster than it can drive, which looks extremely unrealistic and takes the tank heavy wight away. You dont have to read the next passage to get an idea of what i mean.

(And indeed this is unrealistic: Since the tanks max. velocity Vt straight max (-intertia force [m*a] and - force of friction [2*1/2*mg*µ]) can never be the same as its spining speed (this speed is reached with the highest gear). The spining around speed being Vspin= r*ω. But this speed is not reached with the highest gear, because a tank which is spining around on the spot is usually using the 1st gear on the left track and the 1st reverse gear on the right. (in this example the tank is turning to the right).
That makes a superb high speed because we got 2 tracks turning in oppesed directions? nope. Since we got a 70t tank. ->the tank got a huge moment of inertia 'J*α'.
So we got ω=α*t. With α being a fuction of the wight, the friction, the moment of interia, and the power of the motor. (α=F(m,Fn,µ,J,P)). The actually speed is Vspin=r*ω.
-> it always will be: Vt straight max > Vspin)


Even if you dont uderstanding anything of what i explained above, you should know that this is unrealistic !

I guess a balance issue was the reason for this uberturning speed. And indeed, players which are circuiting the jagdtiger got a easy run than, especially with infantry. But i guess thats okay, since a vehicle like the jagdtiger shouldnt be send all alone to the front. As a counter action you could give it a quite good area of effect against infantry, which would be pretty realistic as well since it had a 128mm shell.


Like in this old vid:(watch from 3:50 on)
 Eastern Front Maps

(maybe its a bit too much here, but its just about the idea)

The idea is having a extremly unmobile vehicle, with a realistic turning speed and a very powerfull shot. The shots effect should be somewhere between tiger an pershing, but still having pretty bad accurancy compared to those. The main idea is the big explosion on the ground, which should give the player a idea of what gun he has on its tank. (ISU got compareable probs, but that should be fixxed in the new patch with its new fuction of which i heared). This idea here could solve the Jagdtigers problem.

Also to stay loyally to the wehrmacht a fliedgray skin would rock our sucks off. (themed compareable as the kingtigers)



Regards,

-V-

[Blackbishop]

I agree about the skin ! Also, a bit offtopic but PE's jagdpanzer should get a new skin as well .

[GodlikeDennis]

Oh God no, not physics here!

The new ISU shot is cool. I'd like to see it on the Jagdtiger with turnrate slowed. I would also like to see a return to grey for all western wehrmacht units and leave the camo units for the ostheer.

[Chancellor]

Feldgrey Ostheer ftw!

Hopefully the Jagdpanzer/tiger get the vanilla grey skins too.

[SublimeSnugz]

Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henschel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT. The Jagdpazer design type of units are more a PE thing and feels less wehrmacht.

About the skin talk, i think that all vanilla reward units should have vanilla alike skins even if this means downgrade from cool camo scheme to booring stereotypical dunkelgrau.

and leave the camo units for the ostheer.

+1 Listen to tha dawg

[Paciat]

Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henchel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT

Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same.
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.

and leave the camo units for the ostheer.

+1 Listen to tha dawg

+1

[Venoxxis]

Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henchel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT

Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same.
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.
+1

Paciat is right about that yea. The only reason why relic took the old design is because it looks more future oriented. Feelable stat changes are a must have for reward units, yea.



God damn im so happy to see other guys getting that point about the skins. Respecting this relic design for the axis units will give us the feeling to play the 3rd official add-on to the series. And this is right what EF goes for. GG!

Feldgrey Ostheer ftw!

Hopefully the Jagdpanzer/tiger get the vanilla grey skins too.

Yea. Also the Jagdpanzer IV looks right now like a tank simply not fitting into the PE. fieldgray for the world!



Regards

[Raider217]

Yea. Also the Jagdpanzer IV looks right now like a tank simply not fitting into the PE. fieldgray for the world!

All the times ive used it looks like the turret seems to be... seperated and doesnt look to good hopefully fixed eventually (In other words ive barely noticed the skin problem over the model issue)

[SublimeSnugz]

Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same.
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.

The Henschel Turrented KingTiger is just wicked and suits the Wehr unittable. Statwise it could work out the same way as the Hetzer & Jagdpanzer IV, no roof MG and more tank destroyer focused. The Jagdtiger model is awesome, but the Jagdpanzer type of tanks are more a PE thing imo. Wehrmacht didnt need another new fancy heavy TD. 

[Blackbishop]

Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same.
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.

The Henchell Turrented KingTiger is just wicked and suits the Wehr unittable. Statwise it could work out the same way as the Hetzer & Jagdpanzer IV, no roof MG and more tank destroyer focused. The Jagdtiger model is awesome, but the Jagdpanzer type of tanks are more a PE thing imo. Wehrmacht didnt need another new fancy heavy TD. 

Honestly, I don't think devs agree to replace the jagdtiger for the King Tiger w/ Henshell turret. Imo it's fine.

[Venoxxis]

The Henchell Turrented KingTiger is just wicked and suits the Wehr unittable.

Snug got it and thats all! Replacing it isnt sensefull just as blackbiship mentioned as well.

[...] The Jagdtiger model is awesome, but the Jagdpanzer type of tanks are more a PE thing imo. Wehrmacht didnt need another new fancy heavy TD.

Well now this is really true. By the way, the Jagdtiger would make a pretty awesome reward for the jadgpather. PE Jagdtiger ftw!

Travelling through the relics forums, i figured out that there are masses of CoH player which just want one unit as a reward for the King tiger: The "Tiger Ace". The "Tiger Ace" was the erstwhile tank of the terror doctrine, which has been replaced by the KT with CoH: opposing fronts. CoH veterans may remember, it was basically a more usefull tiger tank. (For more info: http://planetcoh.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Units.Detail&id=15)

The interesting thing is, that most CoH players prefered it over the compareable slow KT. Have a look at this poll: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/Tiger_Ace_vs_King_Tiger-t349037.html

Bringing this unit back as a reward would simple raise the mods popularity in incredible highs. Especially CoH veterans would love that.


Not even talking about the skin it could use, which the whole relic forums just loves




They even made a model of it xD



the whole thread here: http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=122842&page=1



Regards,

-V-

[Blackbishop]

This is amazing!!! I forgot the Tiger Ace!!! shame on me . I think this should be considerated.

[cephalos]

I WANNA TIGER ACE BACK!
Seriously, that's a shame on Relic that they removed one of the most characteristic and charismatic weapon.

[TacticalNuke]

I'd love to see that again.

[Chancellor]

I'd vote for the Tiger Ace too if it also included the ToV accessories.  No point in just adding a Tiger with a different skin (even my own personal skinpack has the black ace skin already) if there's no significant changes cosmetically to differentiate the Tiger Ace from the normal Tigers.

On the issue of fieldgrey vs camo, I have always personally felt that WWII was the last modern war ever to be fought with soldiers NOT wearing camo.  Nowadays everyone and their mom wears camo, and I just think its overrated and un-traditional.

Can you honestly tell the difference between 2 army's uniforms these days?  No army has a distinct traditional color anymore!  Sure there's different types of camo, but who cares, there's no tradition behind them, whereas the stahlhelm along with fieldgrey made the Germans look distinct.  The stahlhelm and fieldgrey just makes you think "kraut!" right away once you look at them, whereas you just don't get that feeling with the camo.