Possible Soviet fix vs PE

[Chancellor]

A lot of people are saying PE is very hard on the Soviets right now.  The main reason is probably the AC and the Soviet weapons support tech system. 

Soviets need to counter the AC just like how Wehrmacht counters M8.  Wehr needs both a PAK and 1-2 shrecks at the same time to counter the M8.  Soviets need both tank hunters AND the AT gun at the same time or else tank hunters will just get kited and AT guns will just get circle strafed.

Proposition:  Currently, the weapons support system separates the tank hunters and the AT gun into 2 different upgrades.  This is really bad because the AC comes fast.  I propose to make the tank hunters and AT gun produce-able right away (no upgrade needed, you should be able to make them once the building is built)  As for the sniper and mortar, they should still require an upgrade, but they should be grouped into a single upgrade.

Constructive feedback is welcome.

[Seeme]

Nice thinking. I think there should be 2 upgrades, 1 is the Anti-Tank upgrade(AT,TH) and one should be the Anti-Infantry Upgrade(Snipers,Mortars). 

[Paciat]

Nice thinking. I think there should be 2 upgrades, 1 is the Anti-Tank upgrade(AT,TH) and one should be the Anti-Infantry Upgrade(Snipers,Mortars).

What if TH could ambush from light (and heavy) cover? PTRD set up time should be lowered as well.

Ive checked PE 20mm stats and Ive also lerned that its more effective vs airborne armor armor than it is vs infantry.
http://picly.us/coh/Weapon_20mm_PE_Armoured_Car.html
Vet 2 armor change makes TH weaker vs PE AC. Even if on the move.
Its an important ballance issue.

[Seeme]

 

Fix it! I hate losing my games because something in my plan failed!

[GodlikeDennis]

I think the teching is fine how it is. Either add ambush in cover, which for some reason I thought they had already, or change PTRD vs 22x armour. Possibly do both.

Also help the mosin-nagant out against PE vehicles because then you could actually win in you sit in heavy cover etc. like riflemen. At the moment you may as well be shooting at a panzer.

[Paciat]

I think the teching is fine how it is. Either add ambush in cover, which for some reason I thought they had already, or change PTRD vs 22x armour. Possibly do both.

Also help the mosin-nagant out against PE vehicles because then you could actually win in you sit in heavy cover etc. like riflemen. At the moment you may as well be shooting at a panzer.

Bad news for PE. They will be penetrated more than ever in the next path. 


Come to think of it ketten is also 22x. Did anyone tried a ketten push (same as bike/jeep push)?

[Chancellor]

Kettens can't push.  If anything, they get pushed.   

[cephalos]

ketten push? you mean using ONLY kettenrads?

[Paciat]

ketten push? you mean using ONLY kettenrads?

Not rush, push.

Bike push
How to Bike Push
Jeep push
Jeep Push Volk

[lbg]

Penetration of Soviet rifles vs. halftracks would be the most sensible fix.

Although changing the support rax to an AT and AI path wouldn't be a bad idea.  The mortar and TH have no synergy, while the AT gun and TH are meant to work together.

[Strayker]

Although changing the support rax to an AT and AI path wouldn't be a bad idea.  The mortar and TH have no synergy, while the AT gun and TH are meant to work together.

Yup that would be a good change imo. Actually ive suggested this kind of switch in teching a while ago and i still think that it would be better than this "medium range" and "short range support" as it is right now...though its just my opinion...

[GodlikeDennis]

It makes more sense to divide it up this way so you DON'T have access to both with one upgrade. If you want the synergy, get both upgrades. It's not like they're dear or anything.

[Chancellor]

It makes more sense to divide it up this way so you DON'T have access to both with one upgrade. If you want the synergy, get both upgrades. It's not like they're dear or anything.

I'm not so sure...its in my experience that the AC comes fast and you really need to get both the TH and the AT guns quickly effectively to fend it off.  As I stated, neither can work alone because Tank Hunters get kited and AT guns get circle strafed.  Also if we require an upgrade to unlock these 2 AT units, they might come too late relative to the AC.

[Blackbishop]

Let's say that have TH with ZiS-2 is a good bet, it could be; but not the other feature, how you can allow to build AT guns from scratch? Remember that neither soviet's support center nor barracks costs fuel.

Sorry but this isn't a good idea. You are proposing to give soviets a great advantage, if not a free win ticket over german factions.

I remember read somewhere that someone stated that ZiS-2s(and at guns in general) aren't hardcounter for ACs. Indeed, they deal a good punch, but if not supported, ACs can circle strafe them to death.

[Chancellor]

Hm...I was unaware that the Soviet WSC building doesn't need fuel to build.  In that case, we should just have an AT upgrade (TH and AT gun) and support weapons upgrade (sniper and mortar)