Tank marshalls & Generals

[cephalos]

You forget about occupation and annexation of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
Katyn is sad part of our history... my grand grand father never came back...

[Seeme]

1 Paragraph from my History book:

In 1939, WW2 Started. This was started by a European Country "Germany" Germany invaded Poland, France, And Other countries as the years progressed. Germany, Italy and Japan formed a side called the Axis. TheAllies were the United Kingdom, France, USSR, And later America. America and the United Kingdom First went though Africa to defeat Italy and then on 1944 America Invaded Normady, A place in France. And then on 1945 the Allies reached Berlin and won the war.

I know, sad isnt it.   

[Blackbishop]

 ...

[Seeme]

IT didn't go exactly like that, but that was the head paragraph. They talked about Africa, D-Day and The German France/Poland wars later But no USSR.

[cephalos]

it's typical in every country. In Poland half of the WWII topic is about poles during occupation, poles during Battle of Britain, during Battle of Tobruk, and so on. You are American, so you learn about americans deeds, if you were russian you would surely learn about Great Patriotic War...
Remember also that most of history books, not only those you read in school, is written by western writters. They could write about Africa Campaign or Normandy until World would end. But remember that almost 80% of German loses was taken on EF. In western countries still lives belief that UK and USA defeated Germany, with support of USSR.

[Seeme]

Yea. I am American and I agree the USSR won the war, with Great support from America and England.(Lend Lease, Distracting the Germans). But It was 80% of the Germans force, Provide that some on the best weapons were put on the Western front. But I still get what you mean.

[Sturmovik]

Molotov - Ribbentrop pact is first line (diplomatic) defence of Soviet Union. Eastern poland will ocupied for strategy defence & industrial dig under for future possible Nazi F***ng occupation. Stalin in 1935 already knows about future Hitler war plans, and not occupied unwilling expectancies about nazi war march away from the country, like allies have.
Politics of 1935-38 is shows weakness on allied opinion of future already unavoidable war. Mass of european cultures is fall for german occupation & allies politic dance for nazi military rise.

Hitler says that the allies is FOULS, if hope for war is not rage for his countries, it's unavoidable, first fall USSR, than, i crash all military power for allied countries.
British minister cabinet make decition, that he first will not help USSR during war. Hitler & Stalin will weak his armies in exhausting war on Europe, Than, they will introduse themselves and take control on hole Europe.
On that times, Stalin make desition only possible, drive borders CLOSER to Nazi reich by unity of nearest republics (for vulnerable resources & industrial power), & poland occupation (for Europe old contract WW1 pact for pre WW2 german nation.)
Stalin hope to cut out some time to prepare for war, that been unavoidable in 1935-37 years.

IT IS A VERY POLITIC NEED OF MOLOTOV-RIBBENTHROP POLITIC ANTI-NAZI DEFENCE MEASURES.

This pact is change schedule of future unavoidable war, allies try to avoid.

P.S.: There are lot of WW2 documents drop of secret mark during 1996 year, and mach of them is for Molotov-Ribbenthrop pact, Kursk, Black Sea & Leningrad Grand Battles.

If those measures do not makes, Allies in 1943-44 year will expirience the hard full European power of nazi Wermach.

It's fate, that the polish juden citizens is gived put for Wermacht & SS. They shooted for the nape.
For article - Polish, romanian, soviet & other deserters will fight in 1943-44-45 years for SS order.
Post Merge: September 24, 2010, 03:50:39 PM

Is this person mad that I called him mustache?

Anyway I had a Grandfather who died somewhere West of Warsaw(Or near Leningrad, One of those) and when some Of my Classmates learn WW2 they completely forget about the Red army and every time that happens I feel they are disrespecting my Grand Father. So I know how you feel.

Though if you really want to know something that gets on my nerves, its those US history Books that talk about WW2...

Where your grandfather fight?

One of my ancestor fight in 1150 strelkovy polk, another 32 strelkovy polk, there was many of my grandparents. They are not known by name, but fight to the death. Like athers, they are remembered like unnamed soldier. That was regard too.

[cephalos]

Molotov - Ribbentrop pact is first line (diplomatic) defence of Soviet Union. Eastern poland will ocupied for strategy defence & industrial dig under for future possible Nazi F***ng occupation. Stalin in 1935 already knows about future Hitler war plans, and not occupied unwilling expectancies about nazi war march away from the country, like allies have.

don't feel attacked or anything, but that sounds like communist propaganda. Defence of SU? What defence? Defence by murdering poles and sending them to Siberia? Defence by occupation of Baltic states? Those are lies. The only aim of this occupation was to simply increase SU borders.
Stalin knew in 1935 about that SU will be attacked by Germany? So what has happened in june 1941? He believed that Germany's offensive on west will end like in WWI - bloody stalemate. Than red army could march in to europe and "liberate" it.
Nazi occupation was same bloody and brutal as soviet one.
I'm really worried that this topic becomes flame war 

[Sturmovik]

Molotov - Ribbentrop pact is first line (diplomatic) defence of Soviet Union. Eastern poland will ocupied for strategy defence & industrial dig under for future possible Nazi F***ng occupation. Stalin in 1935 already knows about future Hitler war plans, and not occupied unwilling expectancies about nazi war march away from the country, like allies have.

don't feel attacked or anything, but that sounds like communist propaganda. Defence of SU? What defence? Defence by murdering poles and sending them to Siberia? Defence by occupation of Baltic states? Those are lies. The only aim of this occupation was to simply increase SU borders.

I'm really worried that this topic becomes flame war 

Year? It's bloody.
Image this - Germany occupied baltic countries, poland & others. SU may not win in 1945 ... Allies will expirience the easy rise of panzer corps from 1941-42 years. Stalingrad may not withstand, Kaucasus resources will fall to the Nazism.

Beutifull picture, you, stupid ally?

What about Chehoslovakia? Amy & Brits sucrifice this country to the NAZI Germany without a word, & nothing else matters, that the Wermaht soon occupy hole country.
That is honor of the American & British good will for security? It's not a betrayal?
And what about ather countries?
Polish intelligence will shoot by nazi SS, thats a fact. It's a blood need, with a regret, of blunt smb.'s vigilance of the dirty nazism.
In a case of freshy memories of soviet-polish wars. By the way, at stakes is not old scars, but the fate of europe.
Latvian nazi is speaks about theirs heroism & they prises for Latvia liberty, they are veterans. Thats a shit!!

[SK8ERatWAR]

sounds like propaganda to me too..
Dude, it sounds as if you think Russia was the only country that won the war, and the only good soldiers fought for russia, like if the americans, Brittish, Canadians, Australians, Dutch, Poles, Free French, and many others never fought for Europe..

[cephalos]

Molotov - Ribbentrop pact is first line (diplomatic) defence of Soviet Union. Eastern poland will ocupied for strategy defence & industrial dig under for future possible Nazi F***ng occupation. Stalin in 1935 already knows about future Hitler war plans, and not occupied unwilling expectancies about nazi war march away from the country, like allies have.

don't feel attacked or anything, but that sounds like communist propaganda. Defence of SU? What defence? Defence by murdering poles and sending them to Siberia? Defence by occupation of Baltic states? Those are lies. The only aim of this occupation was to simply increase SU borders.

I'm really worried that this topic becomes flame war 

Year? It's bloody.
Image this - Germany occupied baltic countries, poland & others. SU may not win in 1945 ... Allies will expirience the easy rise of panzer corps from 1941-42 years. Stalingrad may not withstand, Kaucasus resources will fall to the Nazism.

Beutifull picture, you, stupid ally?

What about Chehoslovakia? Amy & Brits sucrifice this country to the NAZI Germany without a word, & nothing else matters, that the Wermaht soon occupy hole country.
That is honor of the American & British good will for security? It's not a betrayal?
And what about ather countries?
Polish intelligence will shoot by nazi SS, thats a fact. It's a blood need, with a regret, of blunt smb.'s vigilance of the dirty nazism.
In a case of freshy memories of soviet-polish wars. By the way, at stakes is not old scars, but the fate of europe.
Latvian nazi is speaks about theirs heroism & they prises for Latvia liberty, they are veterans. Thats a shit!!

you claim that SS shoot Polsish officers in Katyn... if you are looking for sh*t look at your post, you dirty communist! I don't defend nazis - they murdered many of my family members! I have pictures when they stay BEHIND wire in Auschwitz! How I'm supposed to defend people who wanted to murder ENTIRE nation!? MY NATION!! Now look at you - claiming that Katyn is SS job you defend Stalin and his murderers, who killed at least 30 milion people with theyir policy! Hitler offered Stalin to take half of Poland, and Baltic States  - and this moustached mother**** agreed! He just helped Hitler with conquering Poland and West Europe! WWII crimes don't end on III Reich... think about it when you say something...

[Blackbishop]

@Sturmovik

Stop posting propaganda and treat others with respect. Do not spam the thread with this kind of patriotic stuff.

[Sturmovik]

Propaganda is about cephalos's speach, i talk about document & archive research.

you claim that SS shoot Polsish officers in Katyn... if you are looking for sh*t look at your post, you dirty communist! I don't defend nazis - they murdered many of my family members! I have pictures when they stay BEHIND wire in Auschwitz! How I'm supposed to defend people who wanted to murder ENTIRE nation!? MY NATION!! Now look at you - claiming that Katyn is SS job you defend Stalin and his murderers, who killed at least 30 milion people with theyir policy! Hitler offered Stalin to take half of Poland, and Baltic States  - and this moustached mother**** agreed! He just helped Hitler with conquering Poland and West Europe! WWII crimes don't end on III Reich... think about it when you say something...

Stalin did not help Hitler is't about territory winning before Avenging Hitler (for European-Germany post WW1 one side agreement) rages the war, that Allies want to direct to Eastern countries. I'm not sure, that the innocent British & American diplomats is thinking about pure eastern europe countries. Archive of the soviet intelligence & diplomants by 1937-38 says that.
We have documents that speaks about that.
Those pictures is may be not an Auschwitz or Stalins camp ... Have you documental prove? (By Soviet archive, allied may be ease false, by couse of nazi deposition at end of war. In that case, why nazi burst to the allied forces give up? ... after all, allies gave massive, 8-9 echelon of safe SS cultural & national archive from castles & ather places.)
I know that the British & Russian Jewish is set on to fight by Nazi diplomatic corps. They succeed. Britain is eat the bait, ... and you. If you don't understand, i pity you.

[Blackbishop]

We don't need a flame war here. If you want to continue discussing this you should do it on PM.