[1.23]PTRD

[defender7]

Lets talk about the Ptrd.

The PTRD-41 (Shortened from Russian, ProtivoTankovoye Ruzhyo Degtyaryova) was an anti-tank rifle produced and used from early 1941 by the Soviet Red Army during World War II. It was a single-shot weapon which fired a 14.5x114mm  round. Although unable to penetrate the frontal armor of German tanks, it could penetrate the thinner sides of early-war German tanks as well as thinly armored self-propelled guns. The 14.5 mm armor-piercing bullet had a muzzle velocity of 1012 m/s. It could penetrate an armor plate up to 35 to 40mm (40mm with tungsten ammunition) thick at a distance of 100 meters at 0 degrees. During the initial invasion, and indeed throughout the war, most German tanks had side armor thinner than 40mm (PzKpfw I & II: 13-20mm, III & IV series: 30mm, PzKpfw V  Panther (combat debut mid-1943): 40-50mm), which meant that the PTRD teams need to be close to very close–sometimes point blank distances–to have a chance of penetrating the sides of these tanks. However due to the high velocity and small size of the round, it had a very high chance of shattering or utterly failing against armor it should have penetrated, which was aggravated if the target was not at a perpendicular angle.

In game it seems to do much much more than that.
It damages frontal armor of medium and heavy tanks. It shoots infantry at long range.

What the PTRD did effectively was immobilize those tanks at short to medium range by hitting the drive train. Once stuck, the panzers were fairly screwed, and without support abandoned or destroyed by infantry or cannon.

I would like to see how this unit could be further balanced through increased immobilization or other concepts.

Please don't remind me that this is just a game. It is a war game, and EF brings brings great things. 

Spasiba and aloha.

[Zerstörer]

Ok, first of all....this isn't a realism mod...in reality the PTRD was a piss poor AT and next to useless. A 50cal MG was better AT vs light vehicles...

However, there is nothing more annoying in a game having a dedicated AT unit that does nothing. In game a unit must be able to fulfill its role.

Now...even if we look at your description...PTRD did little damage to tanks, so instead teams would immobilize the target tank and then flank it and take it out with AT magnetic mines or would move up an AT gun, arti or whatever.

In game...A ptrd shot does about 1/3 to 1/4 damage compared to other hand held AT.
They have an AT mine which all it does it immobilize a tank so you can then flank it with PTRDs and hit the side armour...or use AT nades...or bring up an AT gun and kill it...
All in all....practically the same 

[defender7]

ok, I was not clear whether you were making a game or a war game.  I will take your response as it is a game. 
Nuff said. I still like it, but I wish it was more of a war game. 
A great war game balances the realism into a game.
I really like what you guys have done so far, please do not take my comments as some kind of demand for total realism.

[Zerstörer]

I think you're missing my point overall...

In any case, no we won't be turning the PTRD teams into 'PE at Halftrack on foot'...and that would not turn it onto a 'war game' (whatever that means to you)

Cheers

[defender7]

A 'War game' to me means a historical game based upon real events and attempt to represent a reasonable approximation of the actual forces, terrain, and other material factors faced by the actual participants, while maintaining a balance that gives both sides a fair chance to win the scenario. Fantasy war games either draw their inspiration from works of fiction or provide their own imaginary setting.  What is your game?
I think EF can be be the former or the latter. I am not sure what your team's intentions are.
Perhaps you missed my point as well.

[Wilson]

@defender7 - I'm sure vanilla COH is a game not a historical war game, and I think that the EF team have tried to keep the feel of vanilla COH rather than go down the more realistic route (which I think is a very good decision, there are other realism mods out there and it's nice having more standard COH).

There are endless examples of COH not meeting the description you make of a 'war game'. Terrain is always (or is supposed to be) mirrored to be fair, both sides have the same manpower income, both sides have exactly the same objective (which means that they can't have realistic factors if they want balance). COH just isn't that kind of game.

[defender7]

I agree with your explanation, Wilson. Thanks for your great response. I was just not sure of the direction. I was hoping they would strive for a historical war game over a fantasy game. I think if fine tuned, it can be that game. Perhaps I am one of the few.

[GodlikeDennis]

Go try Men of War if you want a more realistic "war game".

[defender7]

war games by definition try to be realistic. I understand the theme here now. No further comments necessary.
Thanks .

[Zerstörer]

Go try Men of War if you want a more realistic "war game".

+1

Otherwise, wait for ET mod who will be adding the soviets too and is a 'realism mod' which sounds like its what you're looking for.

War game just shows war/combat...'Simulation' and 'historical accuracy' are 'types of wargame'

But since we've cleared this up and to avoid further flaming, I'm locking this

Cheers