Slight buffs for the late game Brits.

[AdmV0rl0n]

Roadblocks on sappers is a terrible suggestion. Why should engineers get a doctinal ability from scorched earth for free? Why should engineers get a doctrinal ability from arty? It sound like you just want engineers to get everything.

The above buffs to churchills plus a unique way to spend munis are enough to make the engineers doctrine useful.

I did not make myself clear. So lets just be clear. I mixed and matched, and this has led to a little confusion.
So, let them make Tank Traps for 25 ammo (or similar ) per tank trap.
And let them make road blocks for 50.

And the idea that engineers cannot build or block a road is insane, it has nothing to do with other factions, engineers should be capable of building the totally completely obvious things - and this is obvious.
Post Merge: August 13, 2010, 11:16:56 AM

No, you misread me. The royal engineers sappers will have an ability that is stolen from another doctrine and doesn't cost them a point to use. There is also the matter that allies can clear roadblocks far easier than axis due to them being taken into account during the design process.

You've misread my suggestion, although I did amend it. Please let me explain or pad it out a little. I'm suggesting the brits have no road blocking /tank trap ability (I don't care much about which, one would suffice in the general sense). Which is pretty stupid in the context of the engineer faction, because its blatantly clear who in the army would make these.

Further, I'm not suggesting its free. I'm suggesting that they have them, but unlike other factions, they actually have to pay an ammo fee for every one.

Further, just to be clear, making a 'camping' faction, and aside from nerfing them all over, denying them a road block/tank trap option has been dumb.

You are always whining in here that you want the brits to be more like the other factions. When someone suggests it, you then start saying they can't have it. 

[Kolaris]

British Doctrines are tricky...especially RCA, because 2 of the "Higher-Tier" abilities are simply automatically doing something the player is capable of already (Overwatch, Counter-Battery). I'd certainly like to see some of RCA's power moved from the early game (FOO, Supercharge) into the lategame (Counter-Battery). Reducing the Scatter on both Overwatch and CB could help make them more attractive in their jobs. A Priest in Counter-Battery represents an entire Doctrinal Tree - I'd like to see it actually cancel out enemy Artillery given that it isn't firing itself.

For Commandos...the problems are too much shock value, too little scaling, Demo Charges, and MGs/Mortars come way too late to be useful. I may be accused of proposing changes that are too drastic, but I think its the only way to fix things. Switch HQ Glider and Commando Glider, Commando Glider to 2 CP. HQ Glider can build Commandos with Lee Enfields, they have to upgrade to Stens (very similar to Storms/Rangers). Demo Charges can only be placed on Buildings, but Commandos can earn their own veterancy. It would need quite a bit of tweaking, but I think it would fix all four problems if implemented carefully.

The problems with RSE are that there's no way to spend Munitions, Churchills don't scale, and the LHS does not offer any useful buffs. I'd propose that Sappers get Overrepair automatically, either just by selecting RSE or with Improved Emplacements. Hull Down could use some offensive benefits ala Lockdown/PIV Rapid Fire. Churchill Pop Cap should be lowered by 6 (all variants). The AVRE is the only way for RSE to spend munitions...I'd suggest giving it a longer range to serve more as artillery, while increasing the cost to 75 munitions. Lastly, all Vehicle Flamethrowers are in dire need of a buff...the Churchill Croc least of all since it at least has range, but it could use a minimum damage buff to reduce the randomness of using it.

The British early and mid game is still incredibly strong though...that may need to be looked at before you go fixing their late game problems.

I don't like the idea of Roadblocks, since I don't like the idea of reusing factional abilities. Its one of my complaints with the RHS Urban Warfare tree and I wouldn't want to see it happen somewhere else.

[Wilson]

@AdmV0rl0n - To be fair, I don't get the impression GodlikeDennis is arguing both ways with the Brits. He wants them to be balanced like the other factions and without the odd very OP/very UP elements they have, but he doesn't want them to be the same as other factions (that's the impression I get from his posts anyway, obviously he knows what he means

As for giving the engineers extra stuff, I'd say tank traps might be ok, but I'd rather that road blocks stay a Scorched Earth thing only. I appreciate that it would be different because they would pay munitions for them, but I'm sure there are interesting things you can do with the engineers that aren't copies of other abilities already available. Also, I think the idea of Brits being a 'camping' faction is a problem in itself, because COH is not at all geared to camping IMO. That might be why the Brits cause so much argument, because a faction focused on camping wouldn't fit in COH. It isn't that kind of RTS, I think.

[GodlikeDennis]

Wilson summed up what I meant nicely. Rebalance both the UP/OP elements so the games against them aren't so gimmicky and unfun. The abusefest gameplay (that goes for axis as well) during Brit games is because of strange british mechanics that don't fit in the game.

Why would you build a tank trap if it weren't free? You may as well just build mines which serve a similar purpose really. Sappers should be able to build tank traps anyway.

Kolaris, what range were you thinking for the AVRE? As it is, the turret turning is what makes petard less devastating. If you were out of LoS to see it turn, I could see the AVRE being substantially more powerful. Also, did you ever try Nanaki's mod? I know he changed far too many things than needed to be changed but as I remember Commandos still used LT vet but didn't have to be in the aura. Can you remember the specifics?

AdmV0rl0n, accept my friend request so that I can easily see when you're online and beat you.

[AdmV0rl0n]

Wilson summed up what I meant nicely. Rebalance both the UP/OP elements so the games against them aren't so gimmicky and unfun. The abusefest gameplay (that goes for axis as well) during Brit games is because of strange british mechanics that don't fit in the game.

Why would you build a tank trap if it weren't free? You may as well just build mines which serve a similar purpose really. Sappers should be able to build tank traps anyway.

Kolaris, what range were you thinking for the AVRE? As it is, the turret turning is what makes petard less devastating. If you were out of LoS to see it turn, I could see the AVRE being substantially more powerful. Also, did you ever try Nanaki's mod? I know he changed far too many things than needed to be changed but as I remember Commandos still used LT vet but didn't have to be in the aura. Can you remember the specifics?

AdmV0rl0n, accept my friend request so that I can easily see when you're online and beat you.

Beating me should not be a problem, given all you have said

[GreenApple]

-.-' Most Brit-Threads turn into bithfighting

[Seeme]

Am surprise pacitet didn't get involved

[nomad52]

Am surprise pacitet didn't get involved

He is the OP. ;P

[Paciat]

Am surprise pacitet didn't get involved

Surprise. I did.

I dont like an idea of AVRE arti.
StuH, AVRE, KV-2 and Sherman 105 shoud be the same.

Commandos still used LT vet but didn't have to be in the aura.

Just like Commandos squad global vet? I love it! Commanding Tommies and gaining vet by being close to other infantry would of course stay as it is.
STENs would benefit less than Lee-Endfields from accuracy+reload+cooldown bonuses.
As Ive said before stacking bonuses can be nerfed (disabled).

Glider HQ at 2 CPs? Another good Idea. Commandos could show up at 4 CPs but Id like to see Tetrarch (and jeeps) being 1 CP earlier too. Personally I wouldnt mind Commandos being at 5 CPs with their STENs buffed vs Soldier (like Thompsons) and some minor bonuses from 1 most veted LT on the field.

Roadblocks are a horrible idea. The whole point of Scorched Earth is to cripple enemies advance. Roadblocks fit this doctrine just like Booby Traps and Sector Arti.
The British army was the one that was attacking in 1944. Why would it need roadblocks? It has AVRE to destroy roadblocks, mines, bunkers, etc., and withstand some enemy fire while doing it. Thats why I want better armor to Crocs.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

I think sappers should be able to build tank traps if find it odd that they can't.
Some changes to the commandos might be welcome too.

I think the churchill crocodile could do with some love, for 800 mp it's a bit steep in cost.

i wouldn't mind if the brits had a cheaper tank destroyer too, i find them weak vs armour in general.

also infantry speed in enemy territory, wtf i don't get this at all, why so slow? did they not get to eat breakfast or something?

[Paciat]

I think sappers should be able to build tank traps if find it odd that they can't.

Non doctrinal tank traps, sandbags and barbed wire yes, roadblocks no.

also infantry speed in enemy territory, wtf i don't get this at all, why so slow? did they not get to eat breakfast or something?

British drink tea, not coffee. Thats why they dont jump into battle like crazy.

[Seeme]

That's why they needed the Americans to help them take back France, they drink coffee

[GodlikeDennis]

Both tea AND coffee is inferior to vodka, so they needed the Russians as well.

[AbhMkh]

loooooooool 

[Werwolf]

Both tea AND coffee is inferior to vodka, so they needed the Russians as well.

...and all of a sudden the beer + Schnapps drinkers were overwhelmed.