1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

[Zerstörer]

Listen up children...as the volks saying goes...

Play nice or this gets locked.

You want to make a balance argument, do it nicely. No personal attacks and no flaming.Debate the argument not the individual.

Also, no back sit moderating. If there is an issue, report it  and we'll deal with it if necessary.

These are simple rules follow, so please make sure you do

[AbhMkh]

whats "back sit moderating" ? and how is it done?

Edit:and stick to the subject!

[GodlikeDennis]

AdmV0rl0n, just had myself a gander at your stats and lols were had. Play something other than brit skirmishes if you ever want to contribute to a balance forum again.

Please, post my stats.
If you find someone else who knows the brits like I do, and maybe one day when you can compare, you can speak again.

Alright I will.

~400 basic matches as Brits
~400 skirmishes as Brits
A few allies 2v2s, no doubt as Brits
A couple games as the other factions.

Clearly you have a massive bias towards the Brits, and almost never play against them. About 50% of your games are skirmishes which erodes your position further and you practically never play 1v1 Automatch which is recognised as the main game type that facilitates balancing. As I've said many times thus far, you can't have any impartial argument because of your biased position.

I have personally reached position 60 in Brit 1v1 Automatches without trying for a lengthy period of time, and without kangs or Bren-in-Bren. I've also probably played far more basic matches as them than I can count but these don't matter because they're basic matches. I believe this particular account (GodlikeDennis) is 23-3 in Brit 1v1 Automatches. I would say a comparison between you and I is fairly one sided in the experience department.

As Dennis said...

The big German lover Dennis. At least he knows something (pretty much I must say).
His posts make sence.

This is untrue, but you are entitled to your opinion. I play all factions equally. This is the pot calling the kettle black, Paciat, as you yourself are quite Brit biased. I don't mind debating with you though.

You are discussing tommies vs grens in a vaccuum. The Brit blob will have FOO and other arty support to kill an enemy blob arrayed against it. Bren guns are strong against even elite armour grens and the vet stacking is a big problem that I wish were fixed. This isn't to say that I disagree that Wehrmacht doesn't have the strongest troops endgame but that Brits have more factors that can even the odds than Wehrmacht.

Brens also come far earlier than Wehr endgame, obviously. It's similar to getting BARs before Wehr has vet 2, it makes the infantry fighting somewhat one sided. Only good use of the MGs can let the Wehr player match an allied faction at this stage.

Commandos weren't mentioned for a reason. I'm sure you and I both agree that they don't scale at all.

I think you and Kinkas should duke it out ingame rather than here.

This thread has run it's useful life. You should just close it now Zerst.

[AbhMkh]

I'll just watch and looooooool

[Kinkas]

300MP Vet 2 shreck squad beats a 450MP Tommy squad.
You are dumb if you dont understand that Wehrmacht is the strongest of all late game fractions.
PE MP44 dont care if they kill infantry or Soldiers armor and Commando Stens are weak vs anything but infantry armor.

If the Grens get a shrek the tommies get bren guns and if the grens get vet, the tommies get a lieutenant. It’s illogical to compare two different things that have different costs. As I said earlier and repeat for the third time, you are posting bias information just to support your belief. And once again repeating for you benefit, I said a general statement using a general work “good” not “the best’ or “excellent” or “the worst” or “crap”. Your picking at straws.

As Ive said before, Tommies have dmg than Volks. Understand now?
You cant expect that a Tommy squad with an LT - 730MP! - will die to a Volks squad. Thats why they have armor that is allmost as good as german elite type armor.
Just build youre blob or drop arti on them or place mines.
Wehrmacht has the most choices of all fractions while PE is the ultimate blob forming fraction.
You didnt list nothing.
How about backing youre dumb comments with any stats.
Can you that?

Wow man, I left this huge disclaimer at the end of that saying that it was a pure example to avoid this exact situation, it was the first idea that came to mind from a topic I had recently read. And please read that part of my post again, the purpose of that was to NOT list something but bring light to making an argument relevant and to the point. Seriously read what I said, before the flaming me. I admit the previous post was just an outburst, but it was something that needs to be said. Read someone’s post twice if it seems outrageous and try to find a sensible meaning to it. It annoys me so much, how people just take stats and comments out of context to prove a point which is strategy problem not a balance issue.

Good damage against what? The only good damage the first squad do is in first contact. Period. And usually only if the sniper shot is used. This takes place in one contact area on the map. This equates to one capping point that is contested. In the mean time, All the PIO or Ketten ground being swallowed up continues.

The bren squad might do good damage, but guess what, wait 450 for that, and try to find the ammo for the bren, then walk it across enemy territory - which this supposed heavy squad do more slowly than any other squad in game.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and you posted your idiotic posting as part of some pathetic joke.

Actually I personally find it quite easy to find the munitions for a bren squad I am assuming we are talking (early-midgame), for many upgraded squads I must say. I also use the lieutenant to help them move around the map as well as moving my trucks a fair way up to provide less of a distance traveled. I believe your problem is related to your game style more than a balance issue. Try watching some replays of the really high end Brit players and watch out specifically how they solve your predicament. And dude, from what I read of yourself, I think the same thing. Thus the outburst, you seem to ignore valuable comments from the more experienced players. Constructively I really do suggest you look at a different strategy.

@Kinkas beg me pardon, but your abusing behaviour dont belong to "an intellectual forum" as your own words are. Be constructive and when someone doesnt share your beliefs it doesnt mean he needs to "put his hand under an iron"! If im right this is a discussion and in this type of conversation every man can post freely what he has on his mind without being abused!

Actually in self defense, the post was aimed at a how you construct a post not on a personal opinion on a post. I used an example of a post, on how he used it for bias. It’s actually impossible to critise anyone on a forum without out them bursting out. So why stop at constructive criticism? Yes it was crude, but it’s nothing short of what needs to be said. If for one second he just stands back reads his post and go, “ok this is why they call me a Brit-Fanboy”. “This is why they call me stupid.” It’s because he is omitting relevant information.  And seriously I added a huge obnoxious in your face way of saying something was not my opinion and someone still commented on it. So yes they need to be told, they need to stop taking things out of context, and my previous post proves they do. Everything I say in this post particular post is constructive. But I assure you, not one of them will take it in their stride, they will defend themselves by attacking me. Because to them this is not a discussion, it is a defense of themselves. I do apoligise for the iron comment as it is uncalled for, though I stand by my point that they keep using bias information and wonder why people call them stupid or a fan-boy. I actually would like to see Paciat and AdmV0rl0n in a lot of discussions, but not when you just pull things out of context for the sake of having to be right.

I also understand this post was not all on topic of balance. But his was needed to clear the air as to the point of my comments and to provide it in a less defamatory way to the people I originally critisied.

And yes my throwing down of the gauntlet still applies if you wish to show me ingame the errors of my logic 

[Paciat]

You are discussing tommies vs grens in a vaccuum. The Brit blob will have FOO and other arty support to kill an enemy blob arrayed against it. Bren guns are strong against even elite armour grens and the vet stacking is a big problem that I wish were fixed. This isn't to say that I disagree that Wehrmacht doesn't have the strongest troops endgame but that Brits have more factors that can even the odds than Wehrmacht.

Brens also come far earlier than Wehr endgame, obviously. It's similar to getting BARs before Wehr has vet 2, it makes the infantry fighting somewhat one sided. Only good use of the MGs can let the Wehr player match an allied faction at this stage.

BRENs are weaker than lets say BARs and have no suppresion. I would rather compare BRENs (its firepower) to MP40 than to LMG42.

The truth is Wechrmacht needs to be defensive at early stage of the game but UK player needs to do a lot of things with only few of his units.

...Im not saing that you cant play UK Dennis, Im saing that you want German being stronger than allies both in early and late game.

[GodlikeDennis]

I'm not going to argue brens vs MP40s with you again but you're certainly downplaying the bren's power.

Ideally I'd like all factions to be equally powerful at EVERY stage of the game.

[Paciat]

I'm not going to argue brens vs MP40s with you again but you're certainly downplaying the bren's power.

I know that you know that MP40 have slightly better short and medium range accuracy while doing the same dmg. Only the more accurate long range fire (both BRENs and Endfields) and their thicker skin saves Tommies expensive asses.

[Chancellor]

I see a lot of Brit-biased noobs talking about balance here.  I hope the devs don't listen to these guys.  I'll bet most of them aren't even ranked; yet they talk the most on these boards.  I am especially looking at, but not limited to, the noob fanboy AbhMkh.

I will not waste my time explaining why I presume they are noob etc; it shouldn't be that hard to realize, judging from all the garbage written here.  I'm not going to respond to any of them, so don't waste your breathes, just wanted to get my notion out there.  That is all.

Devs, before you ban this post for flaming, please understand that it is impossible to reason / talk balance with ignorant noobs, hence there is no reasoning in my post, just the hard facts about who is talking with nonsense and needs to stop posting on the balance boards.

On a side note: The Maurder really does need a faster rotation speed, and better vehicle pathing, and perhaps the T3 upgrade to unlock it could cost a little less, since a fast Soviet Sherman or a T70 could potentially end the game right away if you don't have at least 2 of them.

[Kinkas]

Lol chancellor, I traveled your path a few posts back hahah, its a no through road basically.

But on the point of the Maurder I agree with you 100% about the rotation speed, but as to how fast you unlock it I am not so sure. It takes a lot more fuel for the Russians to get a stock standard tank and the summon in Sherman leaves much to be desired. Also if you decrease its time to be deployed into a match, it could have great consequences on both American and Brit balance with their lighter vehicles.

I suggest however the increase in rotation and a decrease in build time possibly to help match the rapid deployment of allied tanks.

Thoughts?

[AdmV0rl0n]

AdmV0rl0n, just had myself a gander at your stats and lols were had. Play something other than brit skirmishes if you ever want to contribute to a balance forum again.

Please, post my stats.
If you find someone else who knows the brits like I do, and maybe one day when you can compare, you can speak again.

Alright I will.

~400 basic matches as Brits
~400 skirmishes as Brits
A few allies 2v2s, no doubt as Brits
A couple games as the other factions.

Clearly you have a massive bias towards the Brits, and almost never play against them. About 50% of your games are skirmishes which erodes your position further and you practically never play 1v1 Automatch which is recognised as the main game type that facilitates balancing. As I've said many times thus far, you can't have any impartial argument because of your biased position.

I have personally reached position 60 in Brit 1v1 Automatches without trying for a lengthy period of time, and without kangs or Bren-in-Bren. I've also probably played far more basic matches as them than I can count but these don't matter because they're basic matches. I believe this particular account (GodlikeDennis) is 23-3 in Brit 1v1 Automatches. I would say a comparison between you and I is fairly one sided in the experience department.

As Dennis said...

The big German lover Dennis. At least he knows something (pretty much I must say).
His posts make sence.

This is untrue, but you are entitled to your opinion. I play all factions equally. This is the pot calling the kettle black, Paciat, as you yourself are quite Brit biased. I don't mind debating with you though.

You are discussing tommies vs grens in a vaccuum. The Brit blob will have FOO and other arty support to kill an enemy blob arrayed against it. Bren guns are strong against even elite armour grens and the vet stacking is a big problem that I wish were fixed. This isn't to say that I disagree that Wehrmacht doesn't have the strongest troops endgame but that Brits have more factors that can even the odds than Wehrmacht.

Brens also come far earlier than Wehr endgame, obviously. It's similar to getting BARs before Wehr has vet 2, it makes the infantry fighting somewhat one sided. Only good use of the MGs can let the Wehr player match an allied faction at this stage.

Commandos weren't mentioned for a reason. I'm sure you and I both agree that they don't scale at all.

I think you and Kinkas should duke it out ingame rather than here.

This thread has run it's useful life. You should just close it now Zerst.

When I said post my stats, I did not say post a version of my stats so that you can play the idiot while blatantly lying, for no valid reason. Next time, - as with this thread, post the full story. I'm not bothering with every stat, but here:
Won 991 Games.
Lost 881 Games.

Shall we add your inability to count to your other failings, or would that be too harsh? I think you'll find people who have played the game closing in on 2000 times knowedgable enough to express opinions.


 

[AbhMkh]

Chancellor my friend i wont reply to your post , because it would be getting indecent at this point , nevertheless i would appreciate, you , maintaining a control over what you say and who do you call a noob , i'd rather not call you one , savvy?

note : Most of the players on this forum started playing COH since the release of COHOF , because that is when COH became popular........

[Blackbishop]

@AdmV0rl0n

You should calm down, even if you have 5000 matches, if you mostly play with one faction, any argument can be considered "biased".

Of course you will find people that played CoH a lot and hence share it's opinion. Everyone is encouraged to do it. But there are limits about what a person can do. The differences between that "expert people" and you are:

1) You are clearly biased and don't accept any argument besides yours as true.

2) I have no doubt that you have knowledge about brits, but do you have experience with the other factions to judge about what can be improved to Brits without break havoc?

3) Sometimes the common sense helps to deal with balance even if you haven't played a thousand matches.

So how many matches do you played without brits? Do you think this type of knowedge will help to improve them?

I'm no expert, not near to be one, but the kangaroo was OP and was fixed; the staghound mg was bugged and was fixed, and many others that you listed in your first post were accurate. I'm not against brits, in fact I like them as all the other factions in CoH. Sure they need a lot of tweaks but the kangaroo is fine as in 1.21.

I thought that the MuniHT ability to reinforce will be causing more disapointment than the kang nerf, we almost reach 7 pages discussing the same nonsense arguments. In conclusion, those changes were needed, if you don't like it you have several choices:

a) Continue playing besides this, you'll adapt to this soon, I'm sure.

b) Stop playing EF and return to CoH or others mods.

c) Modify the kangaroo and cia. stats to make them as before, but you won't be able to play with anyone else besides skirmishes.

d) Write on this thread and many others about your balance ideas until Devs implement them.

But whatever you do isn't gonna make difference between the changes already implemented and those that will occur in a near future.

@AbhMkh

You are quite right ... I began with COH but my graphic card at that time, radeon 9250, wasn't enough, i couldn't saw the units deployed(were invisible), so I quit; by the time that ToV was released I bought a new PC, and bought OF because I hear of it more than ToV.

[Kinkas]

When I said post my stats, I did not say post a version of my stats so that you can play the idiot while blatantly lying, for no valid reason. Next time, - as with this thread, post the full story. I'm not bothering with every stat, but here:
Won 991 Games.
Lost 881 Games.

Shall we add your inability to count to your other failings, or would that be too harsh? I think you'll find people who have played the game closing in on 2000 times knowledgeable enough to express opinions.

LOL, you actually think 991 for 881 ~ KD of 1.12 is good. Dennis did you a favor and only listed you games played. Not your extremely average game score. Just because you play a lot doesn't mean you are any good. For instance I would take choose a partner 10 for 2 in auto matches over you. Fair be it, it might be a testing account, but still nothing to go posting on a forum to show off about.

If you think you are so wonderful and are the epitome of experience come vs. me (add me KinkastheRed).... But no of course you will not. Dennis has challenged me already; maybe we could make this interesting and get Paciat in as well? In reality your spurting theory about a game, we have the ability to play the game, so lets put these theories into action. Win or lose it will be fun.

So AdmV0rl0n this is your chance to play axis and show us that you obtain a wealth of experience from all factions. If you choose not to play I really can't see how anyone here can actually take you seriously again.... If they ever did.... You dug yourself a grave here buddy, by a year 1 level maths analysis Dennis still flogs your hide in experience and overall equality of game time between each faction. So stand by your inferior stats or prove to us your better than people think.

[Zerstörer]

I think I was quite clear about NOT attacking each other  gents and only attacking the argument

It is a balance forum and everyone has an opinion, be they new or experienced players. The problem is few people actually listen to the argument and get something out of it...and we're all guilty of that from time to time.

Making a discussion doesn't have to devolve to personal attacks to make a point. In fact any valid point is usually lost amidst all these keyboard fights. Learn to debate propertly

Someone playing the last 4 yrs with US can be a great player and have great stats with it, however his views will always be bias and lacking a balanced view of the factions. If you don't play all the factions to the same degree roughly you're unlikely to ever see the points of the other side.

Its one of the things that separates 'experts' from the rest...along with their gaming ability of course and invariably stupendously good micro.

Newer players should always listen a bit more to the better players cause that's the way to get better.

Now, as this has devolved into a pissing contest and the thread is no longer salvageable unless I delete half your posts, its locked. Lesson learnt for any future ones, I hope!

Cheers!