Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator

[cephalos]

In fact, with penal batallions, the German High Command was mostly trying to set an example among their peers for them not to cross the line in times of war, without executing them as human ressources were scarce for such an operation. Soldiers who atoned for their deeds by performing honorably during their sentence were released from straffbatallions and sent back to regular units, unlike Soviet Union's own penal units where prisonners, except for a few cases, were mostly used until their death as the army "forgot" to keep records of their good deeds.

Right, I got the point. But the fact is that Soviets were wasting no penal soilders ( that doesn't mean they didn't have any) but the real, line soilders. Tehy were no criminals but normal privates. I just don't see in Ostheer tactics like "private spam" - it's Soviet way of war, and let it be. Nevertheless idea of penal unit as DOCTRINAL call-in is nice.
It would be really unfun see taht every Ostheer player is spamming those.
Oh, and we should think about our forum leading critic.... I know we can make in ours concepts the most wacky things, but it often ends in " this won't happen in Ostheer". Don't be angry of me, I'm just saying what I think - I'd love to see penal units in Ostheer, but it looks like that devs are trying to make EF fitting to the vCOH climate - I mean no superweapons and being politicly neutra;. Somebody could have grandfather in penal units... and the rest you know...
... but that's just game.
+1 for idea.

[Desecrator]

I've thought of another couple of possible fixes for your Ostheer army concept; as always you are free to heed them or not, your concept, you're the boss.

Units :
-The Marked Shot (One hit kill) of the Doctrinal Tiger is OP, as having 400 MP and 80 fuel+ vanish in less than a second without being able to do something about it is unbalanced; make it a disable for the ennemy tank's main gun (similar to ATHT's Treadbreaker, in effect and cooldown) that would require repairs by engineers, OR a coup de gâce for damaged vehicles (less than 25% HP), as you probably experienced a tank battle where you had to fire 3-4 shots to finish a tank on the verge of death.

-Oberfeldwebel should come with the ability to use smoke grenades (still 15-20 ammo) instead of Stielhandengranate, as he is in a leadership position; troops would benefit from tactical preparation of an onslaught. I would also add to up to now, only tanks, mortar, rifle nade section and artillery have been given smoke rounds, having officers equipped with it would be original AND useful.



Doctrinal :
-Stealth bomber, first command ability of the right branch of Infiltration method... 4 CPs.. Damn. Ostheer's gonna be heavy with aerial raids.
#Instead, I could see a real stealth ability more in line with the idea behind Infiltration Method : From now on, owned structures (does not include occupied civilian buildings) are covered with leaf net camouflage (an add like the MG gunner in Fortify the Perimeter) and on activation, 75 ammo for 20 secs, they disapear from the sight of the enemy; great to prevent a bunker from being destroyed or to recover from the surprise of a base rush.

-There is 4 command abilities in the right branch of Obliteration method instead of the standard 3, I would advise you remove Harbring of Death, as you already have a plane-based abilities in this doctrine (Ju 87 stuka)

-The command button in Zealous Homefront that creates Licht Grenadiers for dead squads is identical to Red Tide of the Soviet Army, remove that ability.


Veterancy:
-Defensive Veterancy (both for infantry and vehicles) should yield side bonuses like the Offensive one (weapons), for now it's a bit useless. If you intend to make Teller mines, or concealed pits to immobilize tanks (personnal suggestion), available to Feldpioneers, use the occasion to insert them into gameplay without ruining balance early game.

Upgrades:
-You asked for a feedback on Terror Package : good idea, but reduce the number of Flammenwerfers given to 2 (3 is overdoing it), and make it require a global upgrade from HQ before it is authorized (Terror Warfare, cost MP and fuel, quite like the Kampfgruppe Kompagnie's panzershreck upgrade)

Misc:
-Sonderkommandos, in Infiltration Method, bear the same name as Jews used as auxiliaries in the execution of the Holocaust in death camps. It should be changed for something possibly less offensive to certain players.

-While I like your Assault Infiltration ablity of calling in Volkssturm reinforcement, I have to say that they would be out of phase, as they were raised as a unit only late 1944, and the Eastern Front setting starts with Barbarossa years before. I searched for a substitute unit with the same background and task that could fit, which I will introduce in next post to lighten up the now too heavy text.


Post Merge: October 16, 2010, 06:50:59 AMWe have yet to see any SS units in CoH, for a good reason, but yet they were used extensively as the war progressed, mostly in anti-tank duties. Foreign volonteers formations and remaining German SS units were often raised as Panzerjager (Tank hunters) batallions/regiments/brigades, equipped with sub-machine guns and Panzerfaust. I thought "Hey, that would be great" but as forum members quickly reminded newcomers, the devs wish to keep the game politically neutral and un-offensive to players, so I can't just call them "SS". Here's something I came with :

blackguard

(dated) A scoundrel; an unprincipled contemptible person; an untrustworthy person.    --->  suits description of the brutal, chaotic and sadistic nature of SS formations, without naming them.


Blackguards :
Role:  Anti-tank, light anti-infantry
Cost: 280 each  (comes in 2 squads = 560)
# of Squad Members: 5
Build Time: N/A, Called-in
Weapons: 1 K98k and 4 MP40
Upgrades : Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 (75 ammo)
Abilities: Frantic (On activation, passive, 35 ammo, 30 sec duration, 60 sec cooldown): Blackguards recover Health Points (+22 over 30 secs), fire with increased accuracy  (1.05) and rate (1.25); works only in enemy-held territories, Volley: (On activation, Free, 2 sec channel time, 7 sec cooldown) For the duration of effect, the squad freezes where it stands and is will fire 2 panzerfaust free of cost on the next targeted enemy unit.
Health: 70
Reinforce Cost: 0.6 of basic value (33 per man)
Retreat modifier: 0.5
Upkeep: 10,39
Pop cap: 5
Sight: 35
Capture rate: 0.90

What do you guys think ?

[Blackbishop]

I like your ideas, especially your Infiltration Method & blackguards .

[TheVolskinator]

Marked Shot has a very, very long cooldown (+100 seconds from PE's abilities, and in game, those seem to take centuries to be useable again). Yes, it’s OP, but by the time the Tiger is out, the SU should have IS2s or a mass of T-34/85s. The ability is meant as a counter to mega-units such as the IS2, SU-152, or Pershing. I'll consider lowering its effects. Oberfeldwebel I'll add the smoke nades too, it IS original and it's a good idea--thanks. Stealth Bomber: OH and WM (all-considering) had HEAVY Luftwaffe support. The stealth bomber run would also drop maybe 6-10 bombs (or howies; eq.) over a very wide area. It's a surprise but not necessarily a game breaker or insanely accurate. Your replacement ability also looked a lot like ‘Camo Nets’ for Wall of Steel—defensive structures are now passively camo’d unless they fire or are detected. Removing Harbinger of Death would render OH without off-map artillery save the 'Big Bertha' shot, which isn’t easily useable or spam able (this is considering Stealth Bomber is removed). Other doctrines have four abilities on one side (correct me if I'm wrong). The button for Zealous Homefront was more of a gimmick than anything. ZH’s ‘+10’ didn’t seem like it would attract selection until the end of the game. Defensive Vet1 for both inf and vehicles is very minor. Why? ITS VET1. You get a speed bump to go along with not getting hit less often—oh noes, I can cap and flank with ease ! I haven’t seen a terrible gripe at it and it seems in check with other defensive vet. Feld’s will get tellers at vet1, and I’m not adding tank pits. Same point as tellers; tank runs over them, damaged, and immobilized.  I’ll bump the flammenwerfer count down to two on the Terror Package upgrade, but giving it an expensive global upgrade seems a tad redundant. Lategame flamers aren’t particularly common or effective. Sondercommando’s; as far as I knew, it meant “Special Commando”, I’ve never seen a referral to the Holocaust. There was a special Luftwaffe unit in late 44’ that kamikaze sty-e attacked B-17’s called Sondercommando Elbe. They were all VOLUNTEER Luft pilots. Volkssturm seem appropriate, as I didn’t want even a general reference to an SS unit. Unintentional or not (half appreciated), telling me “Volkssturm are out of period, it doesn’t fit at all—pointless. Here’s my unit that I think is much better, what does everyone else think?” seemed like you were advertising one of your concepts on this thread. If you’d like to see the unit used, add it to your concept. And as (my) OH’s two main infantry use very cheap PzFausts and PzShrecks, I don’t see a gap that needs to be filled with multiple PzFausts. Also, you mention that the Blackguard’s composition, akin to that of SS-Panzerjager trupps, was latewar—the same as Volkssturm. And, I do mention that Volkssturm stats and additional abilities are open to be fangled with by the devs, I saw a modified Stormtrooper squad and thought they’d want to change parts of it around; Blackguards seem to be VSturm with double fausts and a heroic charge-like ability. Sorry if anything seemed angry/way too blunt, I’m tired and sore today. 

[SublimeSnugz]

I dont like the name "Blackguards" it sounds kinda roleplaying MMO stylish. But many good ideas there bro

[Pauly3]

Dont use google translate.
It should be "Deutschlands mächtiges Ostheer"
I am sorry for being a grammar Nazi but sometimes it hurts how the internet rapes the german language...

[TheVolskinator]

^ Thx 

[Sommarkatze]

I dont like the name "Blackguards" it sounds kinda roleplaying MMO stylish. But many good ideas there bro

Myself I actually like the name Blackguards. I know the SS had there own personal magazine called the ¨blackguard¨ with the latest news from the SS XD

[TheVolskinator]

Yeah, this thread's at the top of the list again ("Stfu, concepts don't count for jack now!"). Yep, I got that memo. But I've absolutely busted my ass on a literal sea of pages etc, and hopefully I'll have several documents with corresponding stats etc posted. More of closure that I actually finished a new faction [concept] than anything else (and ofc to show it off and see if everyone thinks it'd be mostly-balanced). Asking blackbishop to please not close this thread (it's old, not recently posted on, and won't matter to the mod at this point; I see the reasons behind it if it is closed, but still, please don't ). Thanks to everyone who read through and commented on my concept. If it passes muster I might fiddle with corsix and try to make something of it.

[TheVolskinator]

Right, so my computer bombed  over the weekend. All of my data except the public-content-esqe PDF was lost (so, a good 70 or so pages of data; yeah, I'm obviously pissed lol). However, I have this; VFinal of my concept. Late I know, but closure that I went at the challenge 110%. Read and enjoy, critique or otherwise is certainly welcome. Again, many, many thanks to everyone who added input.

EDIT: The V-Final concept is in a PDF link on the first post in this topic  .

[Walther von Brauchitsch]

Right, so my computer bombed  over the weekend. All of my data except the public-content-esqe PDF was lost (so, a good 70 or so pages of data; yeah, I'm obviously pissed lol). However, I have this; VFinal of my concept. Late I know, but closure that I went at the challenge 110%. Read and enjoy, critique or otherwise is certainly welcome. Again, many, many thanks to everyone who added input.

EDIT: The V-Final concept is in a PDF link on the first post in this topic  .

Where? I can't find it.

[Walther von Brauchitsch]

Right, so my computer bombed  over the weekend. All of my data except the public-content-esqe PDF was lost (so, a good 70 or so pages of data; yeah, I'm obviously pissed lol). However, I have this; VFinal of my concept. Late I know, but closure that I went at the challenge 110%. Read and enjoy, critique or otherwise is certainly welcome. Again, many, many thanks to everyone who added input.

EDIT: The V-Final concept is in a PDF link on the first post in this topic  .

Where? I can't find it.

Ok, i found it. No need to reply.

[Dot.Shadow]

47 manpower to reinforce a man in a squad? O_o That better be some awesome dudes.

[krupp steel]

PGs got a reinforcement cost of 45 manpower and they don't seem like awesome dudes
They get beat by a 23 manpower engineer close range.

[Dot.Shadow]

PGs got a reinforcement cost of 45 manpower and they don't seem like awesome dudes
They get beat by a 23 manpower engineer close range.

I know, but I find PGs sort of too expensive. 45 manpower was a good price back in the day when they were monsters on the field, but the vCoH balance has made them worse and worse over the years.