Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator

[cephalos]

Now it fits me
Hwoever I would make cooldown of the planes to at least 90 seconds. Remember what said Paciat - those are free straifing runs, and making one every 30 seconds for free would be devastating.
However I like changes in 1.4
Waiting for 1.5

[TheVolskinator]

Back from the breach (real life). Against the constant stream of "you're wasting your time on this concept you ignorant ****", I've been editing my concept extensively. Doctrinal abilities will be tweaked to be balanced vs. the British faction that would otherwise be utterly wrecked IMO. For cephalos' pleasure, aircraft cooldowns have been boosted to 95 seconds. Schwere Pioneers are being renamed to Feldpionier, Lichte Grenadiers are going to be tweaked because I don't feel quite right about them. They seem like Volks with a gimmick. I'll also make attempts to better-translate the majority of the German I use in my concept, as I don't speak any with proficiency. I'm also preparing a secondary list of units that could replace any the community sees as out of place, OP, or broken. A waste of time, maybe, but I felt I shouldn't leave this half finished. The new version should be up in about 2-3 weeks, and the secondary unit list in about a month. Cheers!

[TheVolskinator]

It's up all. V1.5 is now connected on the pdf link, and the new changelog with it. Enjoy. (Or flame. Or whatever you feel like doing xD).

[Desecrator]

I've read what you wrote, it's pretty good in fact. I have no qualms about being able to create a Tiger un-doctrinal based, but make it worth its efficiency in cost (ex : 750, 135 fuel, since Panther is 600-110 and Panzer 4, 410-85).

-If you permit, I would suggest adding Straffbatallion (Penal units) or remplacing a more or less useful unit with it (Volkssturm/Volksgrenadiers). Make it a cheap early game or low-level doctrinal called-in unit, a manpower cost around 100-150, with an ability like the Lieutnant's or Captain's Maintain command range, but instead of moving behind the unit, it would move AHEAD of that unit, to clear the way for mines and a passive that "sucks" the MGs supression in a small area, as to provide protection for regular units while they advance. That would reflect the mentality of totalitarian dictatorships of the time.

- Too many of your units come in with a grenade ability, making them too versatile and too costly in ammo with upgrades.

- Doesn't your Schwere bunker sound a bit too OP ? 20 slots, 3 MG42s and a 81 mm mortar ? Holy shit ! Unless you planned it to cost 600 mp and 70 fuel, I don't know how anyone would go throught a game without spamming these.

- Would you consider adding new or remplacing field defenses ? I was thinking of concealed tank traps, not quite like a mine or barrier, but more like a hole that would get tanks stuck for some time and damage/destroy treads. Other idea : incendiary trap triggered by a wire, defusable by engineer and built like regular barbed wire but invisible, effect somewhat identical to PE's Scorched Earth building traps.

Keep up the good work sir !

[TheVolskinator]

Yes, everything has nades. It may cost a lot, but that's the point. You have to choose when you use nades and when you drop a bombing run. So spamming firestorms (example) isnt viable. The heavy bunker I'll boost the cost on, I got the idea from BLITZKRIEG! Mod's "Heavy 210mm Mortarbunker" for PE SC. Thought an MG and something that didnt shoot howie rounds might be nice. Add population upkeep, something like 4/5/10? The Tiger will have pretty fair damage, I was thinking something along the lines of Voss' campeign Tiger in ToV. Cost will be bumped up but I want nubmers, not just "make it higher". Whenever I do, even by 1 manpower and fuel, Cephalos, Rommel, and everyone else converges and flames the change as gamebreaking . I've seen a LOT of penal units around the forum, and for a while I thought "gee, I'll add this for ****'s and giggles". But the fact that there was a lot of "my country isn't in your units!" and so on made me choose otherwise. Lichte Grenadiers should be your suicide chargers; they're so cheap, there's a button ability that reinforces any loss with a LG squad, and they're what pop out of Medic Tents. Give me a specific idea, however, and I'll make some sort of penal unit. Though "Romanian Mercenaries" or whatever is OUT. "Foreign Support Conscripts"?

EDIT: Topic: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator  (Read 666 times) bad omen? lmao

[Desecrator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafbattalion [nofollow]

Penal battalions are not slaves or Foreign prisonners battalions; they're Wehrmacht enlisted and officers who commited serious enough offense (mutinery, betrayal, murder, rape.etc) to get sent there, and has such, they have to repay their dishonorable acts in blood, i.e. getting killed or harmed on suicide missions. Thus, they do not need to be of a foreign nation, they could be germans for all I know. Avoiding deaths for their countrymen would be their only in-game task, so they open the way for LGrens and others units, since they aren't really useful otherwise. I would never use my volksgrenadiers in regular CoH to clear minefield when I can use pios for a cheaper cost.

See my point ?

The thing with grenades is, in Wehrmacht, Volksgrenadiers have no nades, Stormtroopers have bundle grenades, Grenadiers have Stielhandedgrenate, while Knight Cross Holders come with Assault nades regardless of doctrine choice, but all your guys in Ostheer, except for the basic pios, are equipped with the same frag grenade tough they're not suited for the same task. That's strange.

PS : 750 MP and 135 fuel is balanced for a produced Tiger I, as called-in units do not cost fuel at all but in average an extra 15-20 % manpower. Wehrmacht's Tiger I is 900, so...

[cephalos]

EDIT: Topic: Ostheer Concept by TheVolskinator  (Read 666 times) bad omen? lmao

nooo, it's good omen, indeed 

[TheVolskinator]

Strafbattalion Soldaten
Role: Cannon Fodder
Cost: 145 Manpower
# of Squad Members: 6/7/8?
Build Time: 20/30?
Weapons: K98 (reduced accuracy and damage. Volks k98?)
Abilities: Blood Debt (Free, lasts 30 seconds, 45 second cooldown): Repaying their debt to Germany, any losses sustained while the ability is active will be reinforced for free)
Health: anywhere from 40 to 50?
Reinforce Cost: 10 Manpower?

Something along those (very general) lines? Thats not an official idea but just something general. Also, please, please, please comment on the 'Terror Package' removal or not for Ostgrens. They seem like quite the munis hog unit and I wanted to see what upgrade everyone thought was pretty pointless. @ Ceph: lmaosarcasmwinlmao.


EDIT: Copypaste a unit from the PDF, erase the stats etc and use the template (parts in bold) to fill in the stats and whatnot for a penal unit you think would work well. Also state if it should be doctrinal or not (Not Wall of Steel Method, has 3 inf call ins which is overkill already )

[cephalos]

I really don't see any spamable cannon fodder to the Ostheer. Germans weren't wasting their soilders like SU.

[Desecrator]

In fact, with penal batallions, the German High Command was mostly trying to set an example among their peers for them not to cross the line in times of war, without executing them as human ressources were scarce for such an operation. Soldiers who atoned for their deeds by performing honorably during their sentence were released from straffbatallions and sent back to regular units, unlike Soviet Union's own penal units where prisonners, except for a few cases, were mostly used until their death as the army "forgot" to keep records of their good deeds.

[Blackbishop]

In fact, with penal batallions, the German High Command was mostly trying to set an example among their peers for them not to cross the line in times of war, without executing them as human ressources were scarce for such an operation. Soldiers who atoned for their deeds by performing honorably during their sentence were released from straffbatallions and sent back to regular units, unlike Soviet Union's own penal units where prisonners, except for a few cases, were mostly used until their death as the army "forgot" to keep records of their good deeds.

This can be applied to your unit . They can earn retreat ability on vet1.

[TheVolskinator]

You want me to bring in a weak unit, I do, and its a terrible idea...what? Lol. And did I not say that was just a general idea? And also asked for YOUR ideas . Don't yell at me for doing what you asked  However i didn't bother to do any research on the S-battalion, which is a failure to impart my concept's general historical accuracy. However, like I said, give me a SPECIFIC abilities and stats, such as how many squadmembers or how much i costs, and ill hammer something out. I cant give you what you want if I don't know what it is 

[Desecrator]

Strafbattalion Soldaten/Penal unit Convicts (English or German)
Created from : Trupp Baracks (no doc required)
Role : Cannon Fodder, Minefield clearing, Supression soaking
Cost: 150 Manpower
# of Squad Members: 3
Build Time: 20
Weapons: K98 (reduced accuracy and damage)
Abilities: Blood Debt (Free, lasts 30 seconds, 45 second cooldown): Repaying their debt to Germany, any losses sustained while the ability is active will be reinforced for free Vanguard (Free, on target, no cooldown, no time limit): As long as the ability is active, the soldaten will open the way for the targetted squad, leading ahead of that unit at a dangerous distance*. Cannon fodder (Free, Passive, always active): The SS/PuC soak up some of the supression received by nearby allied units.
   
Health per man : 60
Reinforce Cost: 18
Reinforce time : 3
Capture rate : 0.85
Population : 3
Upkeep : 5
Retreat modifier : 50
Sight : 35
Retreat modifier : 0.5
Hardcapped at 2

I wasn't yelling at you, I was just answering Cephalos about the usefulness and the historical accuracy of Straffbatalions . Convicts come in small size, 3 seems like a good number to me (so that they can keep an eye on them). Harder to kill than pioneers would, but weaker than volksgrenadiers, therefore unfit for real damage-dealing. Limit set to 2 at the same time so that players can't spam them. Lower upkeep than pioneers, because they have no task except for their protection role (and cause they're underfed) so they require fewer ressources.  Have I forgot something ?

* About the same distance as a british officiers in follow mode.

[Cranialwizard]

Very good overall, I like you had a similar idea to mine with the 2 types of pioneers, one for bases and one for field construction.

[TheVolskinator]

Oh I took that in stride. Wasn't offended or anything at all. Was acting in mock shock. Like the idea, maybe boost the cap to 3? My "upkeep" is the amount of population the squad occupies, not the manpower upkeep, thats unlisted . So that's not present on any unit (for anyone wondering). Retreat modifiers were also left out because there was a lot of arguing over the Soviet's modifier, so I decided not to step into the middle of another argument. Took the S-Batt unit and am currently hammering it out! +1!