relocatable bases

[imgonnalag]

is it possible to make the ostheers capable of relocating their base just like the brits???

[neosdark]

Mate i have a simple answer, NO. Its an old question and the reason we won't make the Ost like that is cause it's to much like another faction, but i'm sure that they will have something to give them mobility.

[GodlikeDennis]

Who cares if it's like another faction. The problem with this idea is making them like the fucking brits of all factions. Relocatable bases are one of the major reasons why brits have a fucked up faction design. This is an awful idea.

[Versedhorison]

lol don't get me started on how underpowered the brits are in 1v1 matches 

[GodlikeDennis]

I played brits extensively in 1v1s, got to position 60 on the leaderboard before I got bored. (without kangs or bren in bren)

Brits are so incredibly map based. You can do extremely well on some and bad on others completely depending on where they set up. This issue is only caused by their stupid relocating ability, which I might add is the single most OP thing about brit/US combos in 2v2AT. The source of all evil some might say...

Brits are both OP and UP at the same time. Some strategies such as piospam and grenspam utterly destroy Brits. Sometimes the Brit position on the map is far too strong and they steamroll you while holding the majority of the map. Everyone else follows the rules of base setup, why can't the brits. They could be fine as a faction if this stupid mechanic were removed.

[Paciat]

Brits are both OP and UP at the same time. Some strategies such as piospam and grenspam utterly destroy Brits. Sometimes the Brit position on the map is far too strong and they steamroll you while holding the majority of the map. Everyone else follows the rules of base setup, why can't the brits. They could be fine as a faction if this stupid mechanic were removed.

The Brits are the best thing that happened to COH.
Instead of a halftrack they have a mobile trucks and Captain retreat point.
Extra resources are balanced by moving of trucks (no resources while moving), Pio overcapping and PE booby traps.
Cromwell CT balances wechrmacht armor vet (one vet for all).
Balanced but unique.

The only thing I would change in wehrmach vs Brit games is:
1. Raise reinforce cost of pios. This would slow the Piospam buildup. US engies reinforce sould be then more expensive too.
2. Lower MP cost of LTs and a Captain by 50 but raise MP cost of FS and armor trucks. This would balance wehrmacht vet better.
3. Give a buff to Tommy BRENSs and Rifle Nades (mostly vs elite armor).
Right now BRENs are only a little better than volks MP40 (but 2 BRENs cost 75ammo while 5 MP40 50ammo, BRENs cant be fired while moving). Light MG42 could get a buff too (suppresion). Right now vet 2 Shreck grens fight better vs infantry than Tommies with anti infantry upgrade. Theres no point to get LMGs for wechrmacht.
Rifle nades are very weak compared to MP40+blitz nades attack. Rifle nade short stun would be perfect vs a Pio spam.

[GodlikeDennis]

Those changes would do nothing. The major problems of brits are these, in this order:

1) Relocatable bases - Allow a forward base where you can minimise your reinforcing downtime and get back to the fight faster. Free OP on a point, usually high, from the start of the game. The Brit player also controls every point behind his truck so he usually still has a large amount of map control. This one mechanic completely breaks 2v2AT, making allies much better than axis.

2) Brit vet - Forces blobbing so that you can benefit from it. Also essential when attacking because of pointless movement speed debuff for tommies and sappers. Also includes vet stacking, making 3 no-vet lts makes your troops demi-gods. Vet is on a single unit that if lost, everyone loses their vet. Tank vet radius is also too small, making it difficult to keep the tanks in an area where they can actually gain vet.

3) Soldier armour - Makes normal troops very ineffective against tommies. Forces people into gimmicky build orders like piospam and bikespam. Should be scrapped.

4) Medic tents - Entirely too effective, even more efficient than medic bunkers. Thankfully not as difficult to kill but is in the safety of the Brit HQ area. Gives 450mp squads out for free to add to your already unstoppable blob.

5) Roos - While the other 4 points are mechanics that need to be completely overhauled, this unit is just extremely imbalanced. Not too bad of an idea but way too cheap for it's sustainability. Being addressed already in patch hopefully.

Brits need a complete redesign, starting with their mobility issues. HQ movement is too good/bad depending on map and slow troop speed makes it impossible not to blob.

To address your point on pios and engies, original factions should not both be rebalanced to accommodate one faction, possibly ruining balance between them, but the new faction should be rebalanced to fit in with the already balanced factions.

Your changes only scratch the surface of the Brit/wehr imbalance. It also sounds like you have a particular disdain for wehrmacht vet, specifically vet2-3 grens with their elite armour. This I agree with, it is too much of a boost. After they get this the same problem occurs as with tommies having soldier armour. The wehrmacht vetting system is fine as a whole though.

[cephalos]

relocatable bases would fit bettet to PE - they were supposed to be very mobile and flexible. Stationary base in their case is mistake. They should hit-and-run, and when allies player has enough, he destroys PE base. PE should have mobile base, brits... maybe too, but I'm not sure.

[Saavedra]

1) Relocatable bases - Allow a forward base where you can minimise your reinforcing downtime and get back to the fight faster. Free OP on a point, usually high, from the start of the game. The Brit player also controls every point behind his truck so he usually still has a large amount of map control. This one mechanic completely breaks 2v2AT, making allies much better than axis.

However, British trucks are nowhere near as tough as the main base building of the other factions. And when they are not deployed, they are even more fragile, so you can get some extra damage done if the Brit player tries to pull back after a well executed rush.

Also, losing one of these trucks means having your unit selection GUTTED.

British trucks, used well, are a great asset. But they are NOT without risks.

4) Medic tents - Entirely too effective, even more efficient than medic bunkers. Thankfully not as difficult to kill but is in the safety of the Brit HQ area. Gives 450mp squads out for free to add to your already unstoppable blob.

You forgot they also count as the Brits´ triage, but have to spend munitions to get the healing working.

5) Roos - While the other 4 points are mechanics that need to be completely overhauled, this unit is just extremely imbalanced. Not too bad of an idea but way too cheap for it's sustainability. Being addressed already in patch hopefully.

The only faction that doesn´t get ridiculous bullshit with ToV is the Americans. And even then, I dunno about the Hellcat...

[Paciat]

Those changes would do nothing. The major problems of brits are these, in this order:

1) Relocatable bases - Allow a forward base where you can minimise your reinforcing downtime and get back to the fight faster. Free OP on a point, usually high, from the start of the game. The Brit player also controls every point behind his truck so he usually still has a large amount of map control. This one mechanic completely breaks 2v2AT, making allies much better than axis.

Every halftrack is also forward base. Relocating a base stops youre resource income. Tommies cost 450MP so building 2 is max. 4 men PG squads cost 255MP but have allmost as much firepower as the Brits.
"Brit player also controls every point behind his truck" is like saing Wehrmacht controls every point behind his MGs.
Free OPs balance the slower capping rate of UK. Just like Scorched Earth doctrine, Field Craft upgrade and Luftwaffe infantry balance PEs slower capping.

2) Brit vet - Forces blobbing so that you can benefit from it. Also essential when attacking because of pointless movement speed debuff for tommies and sappers. Also includes vet stacking, making 3 no-vet lts makes your troops demi-gods. Vet is on a single unit that if lost, everyone loses their vet. Tank vet radius is also too small, making it difficult to keep the tanks in an area where they can actually gain vet.

British have so little infantry on the field that blobbing is impossible unless youre defending youre base from a blob. As Ive said before LTs should be cheaper but should cap slower, trucks should be more expensive.

The infantry speed nerf (and no halftracks) if made to balance forward trucks and captains 2nd retreat point and higher suppresion resistance.

Tank vet radius isnt a problem on open fields. Fireflies have so much range that they work well with this limited vet radius.

3) Soldier armour - Makes normal troops very ineffective against Tommies. Forces people into gimmicky build orders like piospam and bikespam. Should be scrapped.

Id rather have a MP40 volks squad than BREN Tommies. Its not the Soldier armour that is a problem (PG have it too), its the cheapness of Pios that is a problem.

4) Medic tents - Entirely too effective, even more efficient than medic bunkers. Thankfully not as difficult to kill but is in the safety of the Brit HQ area. Gives 450mp squads out for free to add to your already unstoppable blob.

Unstoppable blob?
Have you ever played PE?
The only thing that can stop a PE blob is their reinforce cost. (Pios also need a higher reinforce price just like PE infantry.)
Anyway Tommies cost 450MP but are worth about 350MP.
Medic bunkers are nasty too. They give cover. They dont need to heal becouse all wehrmacht vet1 infantry heals itself. Defensive bunkers can reinforce and UK has no flamers to deal with them. At least Cromwells are on the field quicker than PzIVs to ballance that.

5) Roos - While the other 4 points are mechanics that need to be completely overhauled, this unit is just extremely imbalanced. Not too bad of an idea but way too cheap for it's sustainability. Being addressed already in patch hopefully.

Youre right about this one. Im a big fan of Cromwells anyway.

Brits need a complete redesign, starting with their mobility issues. HQ movement is too good/bad depending on map and slow troop speed makes it impossible not to blob.

To address your point on pios and engies, original factions should not both be rebalanced to accommodate one faction, possibly ruining balance between them, but the new faction should be rebalanced to fit in with the already balanced factions.

Wehrmacht isnt balanced vs US. Its still little OP in late game.
Factions should be rebalanced to fit each other. This is the only rule of balancing.

UK is a very unique fraction. Thank you Relic for that.
The only thing that is wrong is that Relic stopped careing about COH after 2.601. 

Your changes only scratch the surface of the Brit/wehr imbalance. It also sounds like you have a particular disdain for wehrmacht vet, specifically vet2-3 grens with their elite armour. This I agree with, it is too much of a boost. After they get this the same problem occurs as with tommies having soldier armour. The wehrmacht vetting system is fine as a whole though.

The soldiers armor isnt a problem. Remember that 2 Tommy squads cost as much as a Tiger! but have less firepower than volks! The problem is in LTs MP price. Its easy to loose a LT but noone will build a second one becouse theyre too expensive.
I like the wehrmacht unique vet and I want Relic to balance LTs.

I also know that COH will never be completely balanced.
As much as I like the idea of mirror games I dont want British to build cheap Sappers first (like US engies), build 5 man grenadier squads with BAR like upgrade second, produce US MGs and mortars...


It also seems that we disagree becouse youre more of a a 2v2 player while Im a 1v1 skirmish fan.

[TacticalNuke]

Brits are fun. Relocatable bases for Brits is fun. Relocatable bases for Germans would not be fun. Eloquent enough?

[2LTAndeh]

Brits are fun. Relocatable bases for Brits is fun. Relocatable bases for Germans would not be fun. Eloquent enough?

Gentlemen, I believe we have our answer.

[GodlikeDennis]

Paciat:
Every halftrack is also forward base. Relocating a base stops youre resource income. Tommies cost 450MP so building 2 is max. 4 men PG squads cost 255MP but have allmost as much firepower as the Brits.
"Brit player also controls every point behind his truck" is like saing Wehrmacht controls every point behind his MGs.
Free OPs balance the slower capping rate of UK. Just like Scorched Earth doctrine, Field Craft upgrade and Luftwaffe infantry balance PEs slower capping.

That's the theory but it doesn't work in practice. The Brit player is able to keep every point behind his trucks because his units retreat to there. Therefore, his army is always between enemy forces and those territories. A wehrmacht player who must retreat all of his mgs will usually be pushed completely off the field quickly. Lack of income means nothing. You will only be unsetup for about 20 seconds etc. in which time you won't even be earning fuel/munitions and your mp remains unchanged. The biggest annoyance when unsetup is slow squad speed, another stupid mechanic. Free OPs do not balance map control as the Brit is usually able to obtain huge amounts of territory regardless, map dependent of course (because of poor faction design). This mechanic also completely breaks 2v2AT.

British have so little infantry on the field that blobbing is impossible unless youre defending youre base from a blob. As Ive said before LTs should be cheaper but should cap slower, trucks should be more expensive.
The infantry speed nerf (and no halftracks) if made to balance forward trucks and captains 2nd retreat point and higher suppresion resistance.
Tank vet radius isnt a problem on open fields. Fireflies have so much range that they work well with this limited vet radius.

You mustn't play much if you don't think Brits blob. You are plain wrong in this regard. If you have ever played nanaki's balance mod you will notice the vet radii of Lts are approximately tripled. This is possibly a way to keep the current brit vet system without overhauling it. The radius was small enough to keep your Lt around but large enough to allow flanking. Tank vet was a much smaller issue but I mentioned it anyway.

Also, movement speed debuff, a fail mechanic to attempt to balance another fail mechanic?

Id rather have a MP40 volks squad than BREN Tommies. Its not the Soldier armour that is a problem (PG have it too), its the cheapness of Pios that is a problem.

This is entirely subjective and has no basis in fact. I (subjectively) would massively prefer a bren section over an mp40 volks section because (objectively) they are actually much better and also have the ability to scale against enemy vehicles. And I also beg to differ, the soldier armour is CERTAINLY the problem. PGs are also subject to gimmicky strats like minespam and flamer engies due to this armour type which leaves them much hardier against normal rifles. PGs also have far less squad health than any other squad, so the soldier armour is not noticeable unless you use flames etc. Pio cheapness is not the problem at all. The problem lies in pio elite armour at vet 2 and flames, which are one of the few effective weapons against Brits due to soldier armour.

Unstoppable blob? Nigh unstoppable, yes
Have you ever played PE? PE is extremely easy to gib individual squads which harms the PE player in the long run. Individual brit squads should never be lost.
The only thing that can stop a PE blob is their reinforce cost. (Pios also need a higher reinforce price just like PE infantry.) Actually, there are loads of ways to stop a PE blob, you just haven't found them apparently. Also, are we talking an early PE blob or all upgrades-supermen expensive blob?
Anyway Tommies cost 450MP but are worth about 350MP.
Medic bunkers are nasty too. They give cover. They dont need to heal becouse all wehrmacht vet1 infantry heals itself. Defensive bunkers can reinforce and UK has no flamers to deal with them. At least Cromwells are on the field quicker than PzIVs to ballance that.
I've already said med bunkers are too good. Cromwells hitting the field before P4s has nothing to do with the med bunker balance. It is yet another result of Brit free OPs doing their thing. And of poor faction design with linear teching. I also prefer Cromwells as a unit to roos, hence why I don't use them even though I have ToV.

Wehr/US is far more balanced than any Brit match up. Therefore Brit should be rebalanced to fit into the existing game. Why fuck up balance between two factions that have always been there and are far more balanced than Brits can ever be due to their complete disregard for existing game rules.

Tommies may be expensive but Brits start with a shit tonne more MP anyway. Good players build loads of Lts, vet stacking is another major issue with British vet making them godlike.

Thank your Relic for a unique faction. Fuck you Relic for a faction that breaks all the rules that made this game great in the first place.

Oh, and I'm actually a great 1v1 player and a 2v2AT. I would guess that I got to a higher Brit 1v1 position than you did, so don't play that card. I don't mind discussing valid balance arguments but not necessarily against posts that are clearly Brit biased.

[Kinkas]

It also seems that we disagree becouse youre more of a a 2v2 player while Im a 1v1 skirmish fan.

This discredits your arguments completely. These changes are for balances in player vs player not player vs Com. I seriously suggest before you contribute more to this argument you get some relevant experience in the competitive side of the game (That is not an insult). As Godlikedennis has just kindly posted the appropriate and correct rebuttal, I won't repeat what he has said. 

[Ghost]

That's the theory but it doesn't work in practice. The Brit player is able to keep every point behind his trucks because his units retreat to there. Therefore, his army is always between enemy forces and those territories.

ever heard of flanking? but there are some maps that suit brits very well - like e.g. hochwald gap or scheldt.

This is entirely subjective and has no basis in fact. I (subjectively) would massively prefer a bren section over an mp40 volks section because (objectively) they are actually much better and also have the ability to scale against enemy vehicles.

it depends on many factors, i have lost some bren squads to mp40 volks in 1:1 and lets not forget about their pzfaust ability.

Cromwells hitting the field before P4s has nothing to do with the med bunker balance

Defensive bunkers can reinforce and UK has no flamers to deal with them. At least Cromwells are on the field quicker than PzIVs to ballance that.

brits have no effective weapon vs. med bunkers until they get stuart/cromwell.