ostheer medium tanks

[Paciat]

I dont like the Nashorn concept (long range tank killer) becouse Marders and Gwagons allready do massive dmg (150 and 250) at long ranges (60).
There shouldnt be a vechicle that 2 shot kills a firefly or takes out a 17lbs emplacement without being in range of this gun.

but against infantry is less usable also it can cost a bit more just to prevent spaming

Its hard to be less usable vs infantry than a MarderIII.

Anyway, if there will be a Nashorn it shouldnt have more range, nor do more dmg than a Gwagon.
The only thing it can be better at is armor type (Hummel),
little More HP (400-450) and armor penetration.

[maxi1991]

The panther is heavy tank, not medium.

Actually it's a medium tank.

@Topic
Panzer IV to counter T34, Panzer V to counter IS-2
i want both

[jdogg]

i would personally like to see the panzer 3 and the tiger form the armored force of the ostheer.
Post Merge: June 17, 2010, 11:14:04 AMpanzer 3 is a must so is buildable tigers

[Venoxxis]

The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

Woow that does sound really nice. That would fit in very well in the game. oO
having 2 tigers on the field and Pz. 3's (with the abilites to explained) would be kinda out standing 


And who the hell wants Pz4 vs T-34
and Panther Vs IS-2? Do you want another Wehrmacht?

hell, no.

[GamblerSK]

I dont like the Nashorn concept (long range tank killer) becouse Marders and Gwagons allready do massive dmg (150 and 250) at long ranges (60).
There shouldnt be a vechicle that 2 shot kills a firefly or takes out a 17lbs emplacement without being in range of this gun.

but against infantry is less usable also it can cost a bit more just to prevent spaming

Its hard to be less usable vs infantry than a MarderIII.

Anyway, if there will be a Nashorn it shouldnt have more range, nor do more dmg than a Gwagon.
The only thing it can be better at is armor type (Hummel),
little More HP (400-450) and armor penetration.

i just think its not a bad idea to have it wehrmacht have panzerjager PE have it and ostheer should too, this is from wikipedia about Nahsorn

"After the first German experiences with the newer Soviet  tanks like the T-34  or the Kliment Voroshilov tank during Operation Barbarossa, the need for a Panzerjäger capable of destroying these heavily armoured tanks became clear.

Nashorn's gun was one of the most effective anti-tank guns deployed during the war.

The Hornisse/Nashorn made its debut during the Battle of Kursk, where they performed well. The ability to engage the enemy at long distances negated the disadvantages of light armour and a high profile and revealed the weapon was suited to the open, flat landscape of much of Russia."

so it think it represent ostheer well

[Ltevanlee]

The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

Woow that does sound really nice. That would fit in very well in the game. oO
having 2 tigers on the field and Pz. 3's (with the abilites to explained) would be kinda out standing 


And who the hell wants Pz4 vs T-34
and Panther Vs IS-2? Do you want another Wehrmacht?

hell, no.

good idea

[Versedhorison]

The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

Woow that does sound really nice. That would fit in very well in the game. oO
having 2 tigers on the field and Pz. 3's (with the abilites to explained) would be kinda out standing 


And who the hell wants Pz4 vs T-34
and Panther Vs IS-2? Do you want another Wehrmacht?

hell, no.

Well the thing is the whermacht faction in CoH is well the best representation of the whermacht in 1944 operating in all of europe. The whermacht faction in CoH would be simmilar to just about any division picked at random from either the eastern, western or itallian front. The PE is a bit different probably focusing on maybe one or two specific divisions but it's really there for mixing up the gameplay. Also remember that the panzer IV and the panther were the main tanks of the whermacht (IRL) so its no surprise that they are both in each german faction. I personally wouldn't be surprised to see either or both panther or panzer IV in the ostheer but its up to the devs how they make this faction.

[Saavedra]

To be quite honest, I think the Ostheer, conceived as a German-centric faction, should be scrapped. I mean, what was the rationale behind making the Ostheer? That because you had the Soviets, you had to have the Germans?

We already had the Germans. PE and Wehrmacht. They are good enough at representing all aspects of the German armies, and... do we REALLY need a THIRD German faction?

The way I see it, Ostheer should either be scrapped, or be reengineered into a new faction that relied completely on foreign troops. Take basic German units like Stugs, PIVs and Grenadiers, and then slap in the allies the Germans had on the Eastern Front as the medium-high tier units with the ocassional super-awesome units like Finnish snipers, Spanish veterans and Tiger combat groups.

[Werwolf]

To be quite honest, I think the Ostheer, conceived as a German-centric faction, should be scrapped. I mean, what was the rationale behind making the Ostheer? That because you had the Soviets, you had to have the Germans?

We already had the Germans. PE and Wehrmacht. They are good enough at representing all aspects of the German armies, and... do we REALLY need a THIRD German faction?

The way I see it, Ostheer should either be scrapped, or be reengineered into a new faction that relied completely on foreign troops. Take basic German units like Stugs, PIVs and Grenadiers, and then slap in the allies the Germans had on the Eastern Front as the medium-high tier units with the ocassional super-awesome units like Finnish snipers, Spanish veterans and Tiger combat groups.

+1

Nation-specific armor (e.g. Turan-II) would be ok, but keep the troop names vague and generic (e.g. Waffen-Grenadiers*)to prevent my-nation-should-be-here arguments. Waffen-SS style Feldgrau uniforms without insignia should also do the trick. However, Gebirgsjägers should never be excluded from the OH. 

*the rank prefix "Waffen" instead of "SS" was commonly used for foreign volunteer units.

[Venoxxis]

To be quite honest, I think the Ostheer, conceived as a German-centric faction, should be scrapped. I mean, what was the rationale behind making the Ostheer? That because you had the Soviets, you had to have the Germans?

We already had the Germans. PE and Wehrmacht. They are good enough at representing all aspects of the German armies, and... do we REALLY need a THIRD German faction?

The way I see it, Ostheer should either be scrapped, or be reengineered into a new faction that relied completely on foreign troops. Take basic German units like Stugs, PIVs and Grenadiers, and then slap in the allies the Germans had on the Eastern Front as the medium-high tier units with the ocassional super-awesome units like Finnish snipers, Spanish veterans and Tiger combat groups.

So you still want spain?
This has been discussed serveral times. And we came to the conclusion that it isnt possible. The Ostheer wont support foreign troops, the foreign troops - will, if so - support the Ostheer just as it was irl.
And also, the Ostheer wasnt compareable to the other german "faction" they had other equipment other tank/guns because they simply had other enemies.
Saying, there is Easily enough to make up anther faction.

This has been discussed serveral times.. so lets end it up here.


Regards,

-V-

[Werwolf]

...It was only a matter of time before some nationalist makes another ruckus anyway. 

Back to topic, the OH still has lots of tanks to choose from, not just German Panzers but also captured booty (Beutepanzers)---like the infamous Hotchkiss---which were used on the Ostfront. My personal choice for a well-balanced medium tank for the OH would be the Pz.Kpfw. P40 737(i), which had the armor of a later-model Pz.Kpfw. III, but with a 75mm gun. Production was taken over and was subsequently continued under the supervision of the Wehrmacht. Hence, some field-modified and up-armored versions were found to be used by the Germans in the East. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/ctpic2.htm

Another suggestion would be the Pz.Kpfw. III Ausf. N 

they would prolly work pretty well mid-game with fast & light Jäger vehicles which could be obtained sometime after the Russians get the T-70 (mid: to counter Soviet light armor; late: harassment). A good example of a light Jäger would be the 3.7cm PaK 35/36 auf Krupp Protze http://www.achtungpanzer.com/37cm-pak-3536-auf-krupp-protze.htm or the 5cm PaK38(Sf) auf Zugkraftwagen 1t http://www.achtungpanzer.com/5cm-pak38sf-auf-zugkraftwagen-1t.htm

[Venoxxis]

Take that back. Its just dishonorable.

I been around here for a very long time, and i always supported the idea of having foreign troops supporting the Ostheer.

I even always thought right the same way you do, just read futher posts of me or my concept (reward units).

Dont throw words in like that, thats not okay. I will always try to stay neutral, so no problem about that here. Maybe i said it a bit hard so i gonna forget about that here.. 



Regards,

-V-

[Werwolf]

Take that back. Its just dishonorable.

All right. Maybe I WAS a bit harsh. I was just worried that things would get off-topic, some people would start arguing then a dev would drop by and lock this interesting thread  ...which would be a shame, since good flexible medium tanks are exactly what the OH needs the most 

[Akalonor]

I dont want tanks that are in the game allready.

We want the Panzer III's ! We Want the Stug III's , we want Variety!

[Versedhorison]

STAYING ON TOPIC

With the panzer III I can see put in the ostheer in three ways.
*an early tank to deal with armoured cars, stuarts and soviet light tanks. In this form it would have its 50mm cannon.
*giving it the short barrelled 75mm cannon to be pretty much just like the PE panzer IV.
*have the panzer III as a flamethrower tank.

remember that the largest anti tank gun they but on the panzer III was a 50mm gun and so even that couldn't deal well with the t34 or sherman so I find it unlikely to be a late game main tank. And although they did put a 75mm gun on the panzer III it was the short barrelled one to provide infantry support. In the end we will probably either see the panzer IV, or panthers or some slew of tank destroyers to deal with late game armour. Also I am somewhat keen on seeing the stug III in the ostheer it would hardly look any different from the Stug IV so there wouldn't be much variation there.