Igenery and Officer Rush 1.11

[TheReaper]

I like to post a replay, and show that there is lot to do with balancing EF. The Soviets are way overpowered, in the early game, they can rush the wehr player, and cut him down all of the rescources. Early Volks blob not the answer. I played a lot of games with my friend, and didn't found the answer.

Here's the replay: http://rapidshare.com/files/394523855/2p_langres.2010-06-02.17-56-28.rec.html

And this happens without the Soviets choose any doctrine...

[Zerstörer]

Inginery are too powerful at the moment due to having the wrong rifle version in this patch....that'll be fixed, cheers

[wordsmith]

I watched the replay posted but it doesn't seemed to me that Ingenery were too strong. You just didn't used the full potential of Wehrmacht, from early begin:
1. there was long time pioneer at your base doing nothing - he could at least cap points
2. you didn't build any MG, but at least you built one Schwimmwagen but then you let it die quickly
3. you were floating resources later (so as your opponent), you could at least build flamer for pios or some bunker

In summary, according to the replay posted you can't judge balance. Ingenery are quite weak in combat - very similar to US engineers or Wehr pioneers. What makes them stronger is just combination with Commander but this could be applied to any Soviet infantry.

[Sonders]

LOL, that was a funny game. Man , you made a lot of mistakes there and he played perfect. Of course it seemed oped but you cant take a game like this and use it as balance.

1> You where slow to build units. You built the schwim but didn’t set a rally point. Then you moved it a sector out of your main and let it set there. He saw it, and you gave him plenty of time to group everything around his command squad. As soon as you seen fire up on all those ingenery guys, get your bike and volks out of there. You should have built another one. And keep it out in the open field looking for cappers. It’s a recon unit, keep it on the move hunting. You don’t have to move it in so close to do damage. Only time you should move it in close is if your trying to push something off a point to stop them from capping or pushing something out of cover so another inf unit can kill them.

2> A mg42 is very necessary for wehr against the Soviets. Try to remain conscious of where his command squad is. That where keeping you recon on the move comes in. Be ready to dodge the command squad’s arty. Remember, he cant crew your mg, use that advantage. If you cant dodge the arty then don’t hit retreat.

3> ok you lost you schwim, at around 4 minutes you got two volks out pushing him back. You also have 60 munitions and a pio squad that’s been setting idle in your main. They should have been out capping and getting flames. Hes already used his arty and you dodged it nicely. But you got another volks coming out of the WQ. A mg42 is what you needed. Now you build a forth volks, your up to 100 munitions and still no flames. I assume you where saving up for assault nades. I would have been more worried about map control. You kind of blob up your volks, there not doing much capping. You charge in a pio squad that could of had flames on an ingenery squad that are standing still, you start capping right next to them= you loose that one. Meanwhile you got another pio setting idle in your main. He moves his ingenery guys on the cut off point in front of your main sector. Your setting on 500 mp and almost 150 munitions and your building the KC, that don’t make any since at all. You basically just gave him complete map control. You really think those assault nades where going to save you at that point? After this there where a few times you where floating close to 1000 mp. 

4>mortars was not the answer to his sharp shooter spam in the houses. Your own sniper firing from cloak at a single window side would have been perfect. You could have thrown in smoke and rushed the snipers with volks. Hell, it was game over at this point anyway. Wher can make a nice come back at times but they got to have some map control. You had no med bunker and little map control didn’t seem to bother you. You where focused on this assault nade strat and you were not going to change. You need to learn more of the basics anyway, rally points, quaing orders, that’s all noob stuff.

Sorry for the long post. I just have to respond when someone puts up a game like this and yells balance.

[chilip]

hi guys, I am his friend who played this game with him

...

thats some good advice there 

Inginery are too powerful at the moment due to having the wrong rifle version in this patch....that'll be fixed, cheers

I really dont think so, if the inginery becomes more weak it will be utterly useless. even now it only has a little more firepower than an US enginer (it is more expensive so its understandable), but its hp is waaaaay lower than its american counterpart. or just its armor is non-exsitant... if any unit finds az ingenery alone (with the exeption of pioneers), then that ingenery squad is done for... 100%

well my advice for balance would be a little nerf to the officier-s arti:
- it should get a cd right off the bat when it is available, so an officier could not call in right after it is built
- cooldown could be longer too

early game its just a 1 squad army of commandos

[GodlikeDennis]

I didn't watch the replay but since this is turning into a balance discussion I thought I'd have a say.

I think ingenery are fine at the moment. Pios can actually beat ingies up close when in green. I also think the command squad is fine, the arty is quite easy to dodge. More of an issue is no-smoke arty - a relic problem. I also think mp40s and/or mines are a much better investment than flamers as Soviets are generally better at long range than the other allies and can focus fire down pios very quickly. I also find, in addition to the added survivability on volks, that mp40s are actually stronger than a flamer against Russians. This requires skirmish phase though and I don't know how early in your game you lost.

[Sonders]

You know I forgot about the mines. yes they are very effective against Soviets because they cant retreat. Mines seem to suppress all Soviet inf in the area.

Yesterday I played against PE. The guy used butterfly bombs and they where kicking my ass. It forced me to upgrade to mine sweepers. You cant disable butterfly bombs, you have to distroy them and that takes time. Yea I think the next time I'm PE against Soviets ill go for butterfly bombs. Up-gunned falls don't hurt either.

[TheReaper]

Thanks all of you the feedback. 

[Paciat]

I didnt watch the replay but Ive read posts send here so I know what hapened in it.
Try to use Shift key to give multiply orders when capping, building, repairing, retreating vechicles etc.
You can order youre Pios/volks/Ketten/British Lt/eingies/rifleman to cap alot of territory and build mines/booby traps/sandbags/emplacements and micro youre main force then.
Rally points are important to. A newly build unit will recive orders as soon as its build. Set rally points after every unit build order. Its just 1 mouse click.

This will speed up youre early game and help later too.