[1.11] Sniper/Tank-hunter problems

[Venoxxis]

MP-44 sherds everything called infantry 
Thats not a argument because its besides the FG-42 the
strongest weapon ingame.

The problem is right what PoldekPL said. And dont try to ignore these facts guys.

A limit is a good idea. But in my opinion the should simply be more expensive, since every inf. which got anti tank weapons is pretty expensive. And these guys got their advantage vs inf as well, because they got a rifle. A rifle hits if fired well. there is no ground or wall it could hit. That does make them OP.

[Budwise]

hard caps are a poor way to deal with any imbalance.

If you think spamming Tank Hunter squads is OP try it against me or Nosliw or a 2v2 against both of us.

[Venoxxis]

Well playing tankhunters on my own i dont think that they are so powerfull anymore. It has to be the problem with the AI which makes them so much stronger and the weakass StuH

but there is still the problem with the snipers.
And their art. strike is one hell of a powerhouse   

[maccollo]

Biggest problem is real-life PTRD - it's one person - anti-tank - rifle. What does it mean? I't AT gun, so if PTRD was designed to penetrate tough tank armor it doesn't suprise me that they deal so heavy dmg to buildings. Of course even heavy tanks must give up under heavy PTRD fire (10-12 rifles can do MIRACLES). But, what about killing enemy soldiers? It's rifle, operated by one soldier, so it isn't too hard to aim directly at enemy (bazooka/pzfaust/pzshreck don't guarantee direct hit into aimed point, rifles do). AT rounds that hit a man usually can rip off his arm/leg (but not tear him apart, let's be reasonable people -_-), cannot it?

Since realism is so important, lets reduce the accuracy to like 10% while the unit is moving. Because I doubt that in real life you can hit anything with an anti material rifle at the same time as you're running. let's be reasonable about this shall we

[Zerstörer]

AT rifle squads are not good vs infantry as such, but they are a have a bit too much health at the moment...and the AT rifle need a bit of an improvement vs Pumas...they seem to work as they should vs other vehicles

[Budwise]

All shoulder fired AT have problems hitting Pumas once they get vet3.  Its built into the Puma vet.  Only Bazookas can hit em reliably but then again Rangers often shoot the ground in front of them lol.  Take this into account if you buff accuracy towards Pumas since Puma's are a natural counter to massive inf that most Russians will have.  I personally would just leave it be for now.  They cant retreat after all, their health should be somewhat decent or else a single Nebel shot is going to pin and kill them all.  With the tweaks to Tank Hunter mines being implemented (ask Dragon if you dont know) I think it will be fine.

and the AT rifle need a bit of an improvement vs Pumas...they seem to work as they should vs other vehicles

[Zerstörer]

Its not as much the accuracy vs the pumas as much its the damage against them. There is a modifier I forgot to remove which applies to the high strength bazooka but shouldn't on the low strength AT rifle.

The health adjustment will come with the addition of retreat  in the next patch.

[vietlord]

tks for your replay budwise, i was just surprised by no allied us-russ AT gun behind ...
well the PTDR team is too easily spamable, cheap, stand-well inf damages and do really good fight and move ...

i think they should lower their fire rate while moving (and have to block to go usual rate) and have less health  ... (they may cloak and mine so they still are dangerous but need to be protected vs infantry)

[Venoxxis]

I was in a 4 v 4 in Berlin, with 1 teamate who quit early. (So 3 CPUS) VS 2 of my friend on teamspeak, with 2 CPUS.

One of my friends went PE, and he was SPAMMING panthers like no end, and had a JagdPanther.

Tanks of mine couldn't even get CLOSE to him. Even IS-2s were obliterated.

So the thought popped in my head as his tanks approached me, close, close, close.

"TANK HUNTERS FTW?"

So, with the upgrade, I had about 8 squads of PRTD Tank Hunters.

Surprisingly, they took out a Half-Health Jagdpanther, THREE Panthers, a Hetzer, and a Bergetiger before dying.

Quite strange imo   

Thats one of the true problems of these guys.

[GodlikeDennis]

How is that strange?

You realise all of those tanks suck vs infantry...

[Venoxxis]

Well, these guys shouldn't damage the best armoured tanks of the game. Thats what i mean.
They should damage almost everything in my opinion. But tanks like the tiger, kingtiger, panther or the jagdpanther shouldnt be damaged by rifles at all.

But hell yea, make them more powerfull against the puma.

[GodlikeDennis]

I see your point but no time frame was specified. A jeep will kill a bergetiger given enough time. This is why anecdotes are a poor argument in discussions, they miss out alot of important details. If those tanks were well microed, which they probably weren't seeing as there was no anti-inf with them, they still would've beaten those 8! squads of AT infantry. PRTDs do very little damage to true tanks from the front.

EDIT: I also want to add, to someone who mentioned about moving acc before, that infantry AT weapons can't be fired on the move and the PRTD is no exception.

[HansBlix]

Biggest problem is real-life PTRD - it's one person - anti-tank - rifle. What does it mean? I't AT gun, so if PTRD was designed to penetrate tough tank armor it doesn't suprise me that they deal so heavy dmg to buildings. Of course even heavy tanks must give up under heavy PTRD fire (10-12 rifles can do MIRACLES). But, what about killing enemy soldiers? It's rifle, operated by one soldier, so it isn't too hard to aim directly at enemy (bazooka/pzfaust/pzshreck don't guarantee direct hit into aimed point, rifles do). AT rounds that hit a man usually can rip off his arm/leg (but not tear him apart, let's be reasonable people -_-), cannot it?

So what we can do to balance it? Break realism. Lower dmg vs heavy tanks, remove dmg vs Tiger/KT/Jadgpanther, make it do dmg only with critical hit), lower accuracy vs infantry... and drastically reduce dmg vs building. But that would make them useless.

What else we can do? There's always hard cap - maybe we can try limiting them to 6 un-upgraded squads, and 4 after MvT upgrade?

What you could do is making the PRTD team a "stationary unit" like the MG42 and increase its range. It would need a short set up time and still frag off any armor + emplacements. At the same time it is still pretty mobile compared to AT guns.

It would make the whole thing more realisitc, cause I cant imagine anybody shooting a PRTD "from the hip"...

Just a suggestion.

[Paciat]

The most powerfull rifle ingame is the grenadier k98 - 15dmg.
Why not modify some PTRD stats so it will do 20-30dmg to infantry but have more accuracy instead?
I would also like to see PTRD do less dmg vs vechicles/buildings but fire faster.

[HansBlix]

The most powerfull rifle ingame is the grenadier k98 - 15dmg.
Why not modify some PTRD stats so it will do 20-30dmg to infantry but have more accuracy instead?
I would also like to see PTRD do less dmg vs vechicles/buildings but fire faster.

Sounds like a portable russian Bofors to me... and would completely underly the idea behind a PRTD to be a tank hunter gun.

I like Hans Blix' suggestion about the MG-like use of a PRTD.. xD