The SS

[Versedhorison]

Should the SS be represented in the ostheer in some form of way either by a unit or as a doctrine ability. Discuss

[Seeme]

I dont care but some people will find it somehow offensive. Lets just not get sued... lol

[jared2013]

The Waffen SS didn't play a very important role on the Eastern Front until the Battle of Berlin, so I say no

[neosdark]

Well scientificly there are many SS refrences in the PE (we discussed this a LOOOOOONG time ago), so as long as we don't plaster swastikas and don't get them screaming Tötet die Schweine!!! I'm sure we can make an SS unit or something quite similar. I'm all for SS Adolf Hitler to be represented as heavy shock troops. If i were to make them it would be something like:

4 men armed with MP-28. They can get multiple upgrades (to reflect how they got the best equipment) to improve their skill at all ranges. Upgrades:

1)G-43 w/ Schießbecher for mid to long range and anti-building combat, (You can choose to activate the Rifle Grenades at any time and disable them at any time)

2)StG-44 w/Krummlauf - For mid to short range combat, the Krummlauf improves accuracy in heavy (green and up) cover (making them more accurate in buildings and green cover)

3)PPsh-41- For close-quarters/urban combat, the captured PPsh-41s are a favorite of German troops and the SS used them to full affect on the Eastern Front. Since the Germans used the 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge instead of the 7.62x25mm Tokarev, the PPsh-41s are weaker (less power due to different bullet designs), but these weapons are still lethal in the hands of our SS.

They shouldn't get AT (in this form) because they are very-fast shock troops, and giving them PzSchrecks would be OP. But that depends on the person making the unit and what he thinks they should do.

@Jared:my friend i have no idea what you are blabbing about because the Waffen SS spent a LOT of time fighting the Americans and Soviets. People defending Berlin were just that people, Volkssturm and groups like that. Sure there were army units but mainly they were civilians, WW1 vets and those deemed unfit for service before. The SS served at Kursk, Kharkov and so many other places. So please get your info right.

[Versedhorison]

I believe the whermacht terror doctrine was suppost to represent a SS company or something but I'm guessing they didn't use the word SS for fears of some sort of backlash or something.

[neosdark]

Yup the Terror is something similar to that.

Just like when you pick PE the commander says "Burn them out!!!- We now have Incindiary grenades, to help eradicate the disease that is our enemy" or something like that. Its implied that they are a Kampfgruppe formed of a SS Panzergrenadier Division and some other elements. So they have all kinds of soldiers. Just can't directly call'em SS but thats the only real problem. So now we just need to make a good unit to represent the SS and give it a good name.

[mooooooo]

The Waffen SS didn't play a very important role on the Eastern Front until the Battle of Berlin, so I say no

i don't know what your talking about there were tons of ss used in the eastern front about 60% as a matter of fact. from Leningrad, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad and every ware in between. they were also used in larger concentrations than in the west and with better weapons.   

[Blackbishop]

I think that a SS related unit could fit in the Ostheer like a panther or a tiger. It's impossible that they didn't mingled in the east, they were everywhere!!!

[BDNeon]

The SS is a bit of a vague area in the useless and idiotic mire of political correctness. I think it really depends on which branch of the SS. The political branch of the SS is generally considered a nasty area, while most people seem to realize that the armed forces branch of the SS was mostly a benign organization. That's not to say that there weren't war crimes committed by the Waffen SS, but generally speaking they weren't typically more... evil, then the rest of the armed forces.

At any rate, FREE MOD. How exactly are they gonna be sued? They're not subject to the same rules and regulations that bind retail games.

[Seeme]

I was jk, god

[TheReaper]

Yup the Terror is something similar to that.

Just like when you pick PE the commander says "Burn them out!!!- We now have Incindiary grenades, to help eradicate the disease that is our enemy" or something like that. Its implied that they are a Kampfgruppe formed of a SS Panzergrenadier Division and some other elements. So they have all kinds of soldiers. Just can't directly call'em SS but thats the only real problem. So now we just need to make a good unit to represent the SS and give it a good name.

Yep, that is an Elite Battlegroup, but not the SS. That's the Panzergruppe Lehr, as when you play the campaign they say it in the cinematics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Lehr_Division
It's historically accurate faction beacause when Hungary wanted to end the war, the Lehr Divison sent there to "keep peace and order". I think the SS wasn't a Battlegroup until Operation Barbarossa, but I'm not sure. I'll look into it.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Well. I'm against the Waffen-SS.
That have some reasons i will explaine u:

All in all i have "nothing" against SS.-troops in a game
but i ask me what will be the benefit for the game?
CoH take place in the 2. ww and "simulate" battles
between the axis, alliies and red troops.
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
Out of the perspective of CoH i have to ask me what
such a troop would bring to the game?
Out of my view it would be just the name and nothing more. CoH-battles are to small and to "simple structured"
to show the realy side of the Waffen-SS.
Okay. Some of u will say that SS-Units will be heavy armed, heavy to suppress and extreme feared units one the battlefield. My question is; why does such a troop with "elite status" had to be called SS?
When u just want to have "elite units" whats about "Großdeutschland" or a more "abstract name"?

So when someone can explain me the benefits for the CoH i would be the last one who would boycott this idea...

[Zerstörer]

If you look at the vanila COH manual  for stormtroopers you'll see the description 'combat arm of the Nazi party'-aka SS.

We can avoid sensitive titles like that much like relic did...after all what matters most is for a unit name to be 'memorable' sound cool and most importantly how that unit plays in game  ...Skins will have the necessary historical symbols though, unlike Relics stuff as our political sensitivity only goes so far..

[TheReaper]

Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.

And the Red Army raped the half of the Eastern Europe. They fought for Vodka. The German regime and the soviet were the same, I'm not seeing any of the comments about the crimes the soviets did.
It's just a historycally game and simulates battles. Don't take it serious....

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.

And the Red Army raped the half of the Eastern Europe. They fought for Vodka. The German regime and the soviet were the same, I'm not seeing any of the comments about the crimes the soviets did.
It's just a historycally game and simulates battles. Don't take it serious....

Read my hole post and u will see that i'm against the Waffen-SS as unit because i cant see any profit for the game.
And with the crimes; well, we are talking here about the game and not the general history. You can be sure that i'm informed about war crimes by the soviets too.
And saying that one system is the same like the other one is a silly comment But this get off topic now.
All in all i repeat my point; i wont boycott any unit which make sense for the game.