Newbie. The Noob's NEW Attempt at the Ostheer concept :->

[Newbie.]

The ostheer

The Ostheer is based on using tactic's from the eastern front. Building to Building Fighting. Street combat. Urban Combat.
Tank Destroyers are heavy, for countering tanks such as the New T34 and IS2 the men have seen.

Now, to basics, shall we?
---------------------------------------
Feldmarshall HQ:

Units buildable:

RLA Saboteur's.

Oberleutnant.

Unit info:

RLA Saboteur's.
RLA, the Russian Liberation Army. Armed with 5 Mosin-Nagat's, They can quickly move around and build defense's such as:

Barbed Wire, Sandbags, Bunkers, Communication Posts (These anywhere in a sector, locking it down, and increasing supply transfusion by 0.4%) Trenches, Mines, Tank Traps.
They build all Defense strucutures and buildings.
When garrisoned, they fire there weapons twice their sight, same as other ostheer units.
300MP. 3 POPCAP.

Oberleutnant.

Only 2 Oberleutnant's can be deployed in the WHOLE match. These are veteran's from Poland. Armed with the MP18 SMG, they can command a unit from far across the battlefield.
 
Cost: 400MP. 10 MUNI. 2 POPCAP.

You shall then build a Russian Liberation Kommand Centre. k?
-----------------------------------------------------------
From here you can build?

Jaeger's.

Stabskompanie Regiment 50 Riflemen

8cm Mortar team.

PaK40 Anti Tank Gun.

Unit info eh?

Jaeger's.

Jaeger means Hunter. Hunter of light infantry. Armed with 3 Scoped Kar98k's and 2 MP40 SMG's, they can quickly rip up a Unit. They can build Barbed Wire, Sandbags and of course, the FlaK88 if the doctrine is chosen.

Stabskompanie Regiment 50 Riflemen

Troops from Unteroffizier Paul Ebel, a Knights Cross Holders, Regiment. armed with the G41 Rifle, they can quickly suppress a troop in light cover. Comes in a unit of 5

Cost: 450MP 5 POPCAP.

8cm Mortar team

a 8cm Mortar with 2 men manning. 1 man carrying it while it moves, and one with a MP40 SMG. The shots fired, have a 25% chance of breaking up, sending 3 micro-explosions to the ground.

470MP. 10 MUNI. 3 POPCAP.

PaK40


the 7.5cm PAK40 is deployed onto the field, need's 3 men to wield, 1 loader with a Walther PPK, the gunner, and a Spotter armed with a Kar98k.

Cost: 510MP. 10 FUEL. 5 MUNI.

You shall then build the Kriegsfield Military Academy.

From 'ere you can build.

MG08 Team.

Panzer-regiment 35 Anti-tank Gunners.

Field Support Opel Blitz

Upgrades: HE Rounds.

Unit info.

MG08 Team.

Veteran's of WWI with a MG08 move in. This is mostly the Ostheer's MG42.

Cost: 430 MP. 10 MUNI.

Panzer-regiment 35 Anti-tank Troops.

3 men armed with 2 Panzerbuchse 39 Anti-tank rifles, and a single Luger P08 Pistol, they have a  Upgrade for 30 MUNI to add a 4th man with a Panzerbuchse 39.

Cost: 470 MP. 15 MUNI.

Field Support Opel Blitz.


A Truck with a MG08 in the back, can carry a 12 man team with it.
Upgrades: Puppchen Carrier. Upgrades to a Puppchen 37mm AT Gun Carrier, unable to carry infantry, but now has this marvel of a Anti Tank Gun with it. 50 MUNI.

Cost: 500MP - 15 FUEL. 5 POCAP.

Upgrade info:

HE Rounds. All AT Weapons now have the choice to fire HE Anti-infantry rounds instead of AP Rounds.

OstFactory
-------------------------
From here you build:

Waffen SS Troops

LT-35

Panzer Mk. II

Grille

Info:

Waffen SS Troops

Member's of the 1st SS Adolf Hitler, armed with MP40's, but can upgrade to MP44's, they can SHRED, and i mean SHRED, Infantry.
Cost: 550 MP. 5 MUNI. 5 POPCAP.

LT-35 [Panzer 35(t)]


A Light tank with a 37mm Gun, now used in the eastern front as a Recon tank.
COST: 600MP. 30 FUEL. 6POPCAP.

Panzer II Ausf. C:


A Tank with a 20mm Gun, can quickly take down buildings as fast as you can say 'Communism'
Cost: 670MP. 35 FUEL. 6POPCAP.

Grille:

 A Light version of the Hummel. Can't fire at the range of a Hummel, but it's 15cm Gun can quickly rip down a building as fast as you can say 'Comm...'

Cost: 750MP. 7POPCAP. 45 FUEL.

You then build a

OstKriegFactory

Here you build.

SD Commando's

a Panzer IV Ausf. H

A Tiger VI



Info:

SD Commandos

Calls in the combat arm of Mr. Reinhard Heydrich's SD. 6 men all armed with the STG45 Assault Rifle, these are elite troops.
Cost: 600MP. 6 POPCAP.

Panzer IV Ausf. H.

Medium tank armed with a 75.6mm Gun, easy counter for the T-35/76. Has Side skirts and a MG34 as a Upgrade. 60 MUNI Each. For 100 MUNI and 70 FUEL, can upgrade into the Jadgpanzer IV Tank Destroyer.
Cost: 800MP 8POPCAP. 90FUEL.

Panzer VI Tiger.

Very heavy armour. Mounts a 8.8cm Gun with a hull mounted MG30, Even the mighty IS2 Fears it.

Cost: 1200MP. 120FUEL. 13POPCAP.

Jagdpanzer IV.


The Main Tank Destroyer of the OH. Armed with the same 75.6mm Gun of the Panzer, but it's low sillotte and heavy armour allow it to 'Go Unnoticed' and 'disappear' into the Battlefield.
Cost: 950MP. 100FUEL. 10POPCAP.

Now, Vet.

You earn vet by, well, shooting a gun.. basiclly. Whenever a Troop fires at a Enemy unit, hitting/killing or not, it gets 25% Vet for a new level.

IA.

firing 4 = Vet1 - Increased DEFENCE.

Firing 8 = Vet2 - Increased OFFENCE.

Firing 12 = Vet3 - Increased SPEED.

Doctrines [Yay]

3 Doctrines

Army Engineer corps.

Army Tank Corps.

Schutzstaffel Support.

Starting with: AEC.
ARMY ENG. CORPS


PIONEER SUPPORT

Feldpioneer Support


Calls in a unit of Feldpioneer's, armed with G43 rifles, they can build the new 7.5cm Leichtes infanteriegeschutz 18 Mountain Gun.
1 CP.

FlaK 8.8


Your Jager's can now build a FlaK88.
3 CP.

38cm schwerer Ladungswerfer Mortar.

Calls in a shot from this beast, destroying any Building or tank up to the T34/85 it hits.
3CP.

2nd Luftwaffe Volunteer Calvary Support


Bergepanzer (38)t


Calls in the Bergepanzer (38)t MG34 armed ARV, only 2 are allowed on the battlefield at a time.
2CP..
Bf.109H Support


Hans-Ulrich Rudel's BF109H Squadron flys overhead, spraying any infantry in the area with it's MG Rounds.

3CP.

'Das Panther'


Calls in 2 Panther Mk. V Tanks.

5CP.


ARMY TANK CORPS


8th Jager Division


Anti-Tank Arty.

Send's a couple a' ol' 77mm Rounds crashing to the floor.
2 CP.


RSO PAK40 Carrier.

A RSO Truck carrying a PAK40 75mm Gun is called into the battlefield. Can only fire 45 degree's infront of it.
2CP.

Mein Panzer!


Calls in the Sturer Emil only once to each commander. This best carrys a 128mm Gun.
4CP.

12th Armour Division


Hungarian Riflemen


Calls in 5 men armed with 35M Rifle from the Hungarian VII Army Corps.

1CP.

ADGZ


Calls in the ADGZ Armoured car, this ageing car still can be used with full might against the Communist scum!

2CP.

Nashorn


The Nashorn tank destroyer with a 8.8cm Gun is called in to crush the commie's!
4CP.

Schutzstaffel Support


12th SS Hitlerjugend.
 


Finnish SS Troops.


Calls in a 6man unit of Finnish SS Troops armed with Suomi KP-31 SMG's.
2CP.

Feldmarshall



Calls in a Feldmarshall one time only, this elite has a Irons Cross and a Luger, but while he's alive, ALL units have the bonus of a Oberleutnant.
4CP.

10.5cm leFH 18


Calls in a 10.5cm leFH 18, only 3 on the battlefield at a time.
3CP.

2nd SS Panzer Division 'Das Reich'



T34/76


Calls in a captured T34/76, with the Das Reich Insigna.

Flammewerfer Support


Calls in a Sd.Kfz 251 Flammenwerfer Ausf. B Halftrack, and 3 SS Troops, armed with Dual Flammenwerfer 34 Flame-throwers.

Blitzkrieg.

You can choose 3 areas of a map to be flattened by Bombing of HE111's, JU87 Stukas, JU88's, and JU52's. Only can be used twice, can't be used on locked down sectors.
6 CP.

[Ghost]

oh, where do i start 

UNITS:
Jaeger: why are they effective vs. buildings? and why a pop cap of 1?
Volksgrenadiers, Panzergrenadiers: way too cheap
Assault Troops: why are they effective vs. buildings/tanks? way too cheap
Panzer I: why a pop cap of 8? more than a StuG btw 
Panzer III: they used a low velocity 75mm gun, effective vs. soft targets not tanks...why 10 pop?
StuG III: 10 pop?
Tiger I: "extreme armor"  "800MP. 70 FUEL. 12 POPCAP."...balance?!

veterancy: that's not gonna work, what if your opponent uses just 3 different units than you're never gonna reach high vet.

doctrines :

Das Reich Arty: "poison gas shells", that was discussed before i think
Wurfrahmen 40 Support: why? you allready have a panzerwerfer, what's so special about it?
M.41M Tank Dest.: have you any data about it, i found nothing
Fur Das Volks: shotguns and firing range 
'Dora': 2 shots? how strong?!
Moebelwagen AA: as far as i remember that's an uncommon unit (<300) -> lord rommel?
FlaK 88 Support: mobile 88? that was discussed before and is considered OP
RSO Support: what sort of unit?

conclusion
most units are too cheap or popcap is way to high -> balance
your ostheer has no medium tank (except the panzer III/stug III), means no panzer IV/panther, but a buildable tiger for 12 pop and 70 fuel... 
looking forward for lord rommels opinion

ps: guess i don't have to mention that i neither like your avator nor your signiture 

[neosdark]

Okay my friend i have to completly and utterly agree with El Tigre (down to the PS part). Its way to unbalanced. Look at some other threads my friend. They might give you some ideas on how to balance out the Ost.

I would suggest you move the Mobelwagon out of your Doctrine tree, add the Panzerwerfer, and change the Wurfrahmen 40 to something else. Also make the Mobelwagon into a Flakpanzer 38(t) for more accuracy. Now the Fur Das Volks should have only one shotgun or better yet, use a shotgun as there special ability for close combat. Otherwise I would suggest giving them a SMG perhaps an MP-28

Now the M.41M Tank is not a tank but in fact an Italian Tank Destroyer. http://www.wwiivehicles.com/italy/self-propelled-guns/semovente-m41.asp Here is what i found on it. Supposedly the Germans "confiscated" a few in 1943 and 44 so it is a viable option on the Eastern Front, as many served here. But its really just a weaker Nashorn so it or the Nashorn should be changed

I think this concept is a regular noob concept, grossly unbalanced. We all had one like this. So there is some prospective, just check out other peoples concepts, get some ideas, and good luck.

[Blackbishop]

You should start with your general concept(perhaps doctrines later when you have a solid concept) after that you could calculate costs to them. Usually pop cost is equal to the number of soldiers unless they are vehicles(I guess crew number) or elite infantry OR they are just meatshields like conscripts.

[Ghost]

Now the M.41M Tank is not a tank but in fact an Italian Tank Destroyer

thanks neo
but in the text it's mentioned that is was primarily used in north africa and didn't carry an 88mm gun

http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=5494&view=next
here is mentioned that only about 30-40 vehicles were produced and used in Sicily only (maybe 6 were taken by the germans in rome and used in italy)

[Blackbishop]

Now the M.41M Tank is not a tank but in fact an Italian Tank Destroyer

thanks neo
but in the text it's mentioned that is was primarily used in north africa and didn't carry an 88mm gun

http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=5494&view=next
here is mentioned that only about 30-40 vehicles were produced and used in Sicily only (maybe 6 were taken by the germans in rome and used in italy)

He could just used the Elefant instead .

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Well. My historical notes;
The Semovente da 90/53 ( Newbie's M41M ) was never used at the eastern front. The Italians had developed this tankhunter to deal with the russian T-34 but when the tank was ready the problems at Africa were much bigger so a small number of Semovente da 90/53 were send to Africa. The Semovente da 90/53 fough till the end of the war at the italian front line anf not anywhere else.

And with the Möbelwagen; well. What should i write?
A number of 240 Möbelwagen were build. The served at the eastern and the western front.

[neosdark]

Now the M.41M Tank is not a tank but in fact an Italian Tank Destroyer

thanks neo
but in the text it's mentioned that is was primarily used in north africa and didn't carry an 88mm gun

http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=5494&view=next
here is mentioned that only about 30-40 vehicles were produced and used in Sicily only (maybe 6 were taken by the germans in rome and used in italy)

I wish i could read what the guys were saying on that page. I don't understand German because i live in  NYC and the doushbags here seem to have forgotten how the Germans have helped shape their world beyond all the other immigrant groups. There are few schools that teach anything but Spanish, French, or Italian. Those that do, teach Chinese. I speak Russian, so French is like 30x easier.

Anyway back to the topic: I know i didn't have a 88mm thats why i said weaker then a Nashorn. Your page says 30-40, my page says 100-200 since about that many were used by the Germans in Italy. You're page is taking about Semovente da 75/18 Su Scafo M 41 M13/40 hull of which only 60 were made. Check my page again and you will see what im talking about.

 I think that this vehicle served on the Eastern Front because my great-grandpa was a Battlefield medic and he said hat he saw tanks (T-34/76s) being destroyed by a huge Tank Destroyer with Italian Markings all over it. Maybe it was something else, but hey that's what i heard.

As for what you were saying Bishop, not everyone likes(or wants) the Elephant , some of us prefer the Nashorn or other tank destroyers that are similar.

[Ghost]

As for what you were saying Bishop, not everyone likes(or wants) the Elephant , some of us prefer the Nashorn or other tank destroyers that are similar.

there could be place for both units:
the nashorn would be like better version of the PE marder III (with good range, good damage and a weak armor) while the elefant would have massive armor

Well. My historical notes;
The Semovente da 90/53 ( Newbie's M41M ) was never used at the eastern front. The Italians had developed this tankhunter to deal with the russian T-34 but when the tank was ready the problems at Africa were much bigger so a small number of Semovente da 90/53 were send to Africa. The Semovente da 90/53 fough till the end of the war at the italian front line anf not anywhere else.[...]

like rommel i didn't find anything about them beeing used on the eastern front as well 

[Blackbishop]

As for what you were saying Bishop, not everyone likes(or wants) the Elephant , some of us prefer the Nashorn or other tank destroyers that are similar.

there could be place for both units:
the nashorn would be like better version of the PE marder III (with good range, good damage and a weak armor) while the elefant would have massive armor
...

+1
That was exactly what i'm thinking...

[neosdark]

As for what you were saying Bishop, not everyone likes(or wants) the Elephant , some of us prefer the Nashorn or other tank destroyers that are similar.

there could be place for both units:
the nashorn would be like better version of the PE marder III (with good range, good damage and a weak armor) while the elefant would have massive armor

Well. My historical notes;
The Semovente da 90/53 ( Newbie's M41M ) was never used at the eastern front. The Italians had developed this tankhunter to deal with the russian T-34 but when the tank was ready the problems at Africa were much bigger so a small number of Semovente da 90/53 were send to Africa. The Semovente da 90/53 fough till the end of the war at the italian front line anf not anywhere else.[...]

like rommel i didn't find anything about them beeing used on the eastern front as well 

Well let me, say this. If we have 2 Uber-Tank Destroyers, then say bye to the IS-2 for me.  Imagine this situation, 1 Nashorn and Elephant are on the field at the EXACT same time and under 2 COs command. You have one guy using the Nashorn to pick off lighter tanks such as the T-34 at a distance, and the Elephant blowing up anything that may come closer  tothem. Sounds like we need one Paciat here cause thats WAY OP.

If we make an Elephant it becomes a Super-ranged Tiger, with more(?) armor (perhaps a weaker gun, but almost all TD have long-range so it won't make too much of a difference). If we make a Nashorn then, it would be an uber-Marder 3 ( probably also with lock-down to compensate for the weak armor) so someone tell me how that works together?

As for the M41M, well that just plain sucks, I was looking forward to seeing some Italian Armor in the East. It would stop some peoples nagging for an international army. I wonder what my grandpa saw

[Blackbishop]

If they are placed in different end-tier doctrines i think it wouldn't be such problem; it would be like having a king tiger and a jagdpanther on the field.

In either case its up the Devs to decide which unit will be implemented.

Which Italian armor would be suitable to represent? I don't know a thing about italian army...

[neosdark]

If they are placed in different end-tier doctrines i think it wouldn't be such problem; it would be like having a king tiger and a jagdpanther on the field.

In either case its up the Devs to decide which unit will be implemented.

Which Italian armor would be suitable to represent? I don't know a thing about italian army...

Umm i don't get what you mean by having a King Tiger and Jagdpanther on the field. Are you impplying that they are easy to deal with? Because im pretty sure that with proper tactics i could deploy a King-Tiger pretty fast and destroy everything on the field within a few minutes. Add a Jagdpanther into the mix and its hell on Earth. Placing them into 2 different doctrines won't really help as far as i can see. Im sure there are many ways to defeat them but with proper support that combo is quite scary.

As for Italian Armor, well beats me

[Blackbishop]

Umm i don't get what you mean by having a King Tiger and Jagdpanther on the field. Are you impplying that they are easy to deal with? Because im pretty sure that with proper tactics i could deploy a King-Tiger pretty fast and destroy everything on the field within a few minutes. Add a Jagdpanther into the mix and its hell on Earth. Placing them into 2 different doctrines won't really help as far as i can see. Im sure there are many ways to defeat them but with proper support that combo is quite scary.

As for Italian Armor, well beats me

No, I just want to say that scenario will be available on 2vs2, if one player chooses Wehr(Terror Doctrine) and the other PE(Tank Destroyers) eventually would get the king tiger and the jagdpanther respectivelly.

I apply this to the nashorn and the elefant; two ostheer players, one with Doctrine North for nashorn and the other with doctrine South for elefant eventually would get the nashorn and the elefant. I don't know if Devs would implement something like that but if there were dreams to sell, what would you buy?

[neosdark]

What would i buy? A drunk panzer38(t) crew But seriously speaking, I doubt they will attach a Nashorn if they have the Elephant because only 2 Nashorns actually exsisted and they both served at Stalingrad. Not much of a whole front representation. But a drunk can dream..... quite vividly.