OFFICIAL POLL: Removing the original factions plus adding in retreat and vet

[Killar]

Just thinking if the community can do something like a petition to move relic update the dll file.

As we are consumers, relic should have an interest to keep their purchaser loyal.

[luz777]

For me the best thing about this mod is that it adds to the game, and doesn't remove anything from it.

I really wouldn't want to see EF remove the OF factions just for the sake of recrew and ranking.

I like no recrew, like has been said earlier it is a counterpoint to the larger amount of troops the soviets can field, if they could recrew then it would mean quite a large faction redesign (i imagine)

I cannot for the life of me understand why people need a fake little army badge telling them how well theyve done to enjoy a game, who cares about ranks if your having a good time playing the game.

I would like to see the Ostheer with a different vet system to the soviets, but if the Ost had no recrew I genuinely wouldn't care so long as it was counterbalanced by something giving them an equal advantage.

At the end of the day I'd say you should stay true to the original idea behind EF, to expand CoH, and not to take things away from the player.

Besides, as "unpopular" as PE and Commonwealth are I'm sure theres a lot of people who play them and will be equally if not more pissed off about having their favorite faction removed from the mod.

To be fair, I think that if you did make this change, you'd have even more people mouthing off on the internetz about how they think it sucks.

The main reason that people moved away from this mod was the rather messy state it got released in, which has put those with no patience off. Release some updates to lure people back in, and keep going 

Ramble over, i'm sure you'll come to the right descision anyhow.

Cheers

[Capt. Malashenko]

The small things such as no retreat, vet and re-crew are what makes the CCCP so interesting and unique.
I believe this voting thing probably came because of the Ostheer, to make them suffer the same restrictions as the Soviets would`nt bring much good, so, my suggestion would be (if there`s no other choice) - replace the OF factions - but keep the play-style of the Soviets as is. They`r not perfect - but it`s hell of a fun to have such different faction with radical approach - it`s what makes them so dinamic ...

[Panzer4life]

   I will say this, the more i think about it, the more it seems that people ant to still have the British and PE armies. I like the two factions, but I don't want to have a mod get ruined because of server limitations.
  Get the Ostheer in by any means, and then try to find a way to put the British and PE back into the mod. Go true to your word and deliver your promise. You said there be an Ostheer, put it in. then go back and fix the server limitation problems.

[nbeerbower]

On a semi-related note. If retreating is added to the Soviets - I would keep no-retreat not only for NKVDs but also regular conscripts. This shows that they were disposable, and It would seem like a downgrade to get NKVDs if you couldn't retreat them any longer.

[ford_prefect]

me and the chaps who play this have a plan for Allies:
One Russian and One English army, (commonwealth my bad) the Russians run out and cap and the English dig in its very good and rather solid (just don't let the Russian fox run to far)

[ReckLESS]

Registered just to make a comment here...

So, here we go:

• Add recrewing as there were cases of using trophy weaponry by Red Army.
• Add vet system, because experience of those soldiers, who lived through war, was drastically higher than experience of allied folks, who won some battles in France and Holland (even though they had special training before action and most of the Red Army were conscripts). Is there a possibility of making a mix of US and WH vet system? Like an upgrade in Armory, which gives vet1 to all built units? (via script, if possible) and the possibility of earning additional vet ranks on the battlefield? Would be nice imo.
• Retreat... Well, just because I was born in USSR I dislike all this "Enemy at the Gates" thing... So I second someone who proposed "no retreat only for NKVD squads". For example you can add retreat to Command Squad, but if it uses retreat, all nearby squads would've become supressed/pinned (morale down due to commander's retreat).

[Blackbishop]

I like soviets vet, retreat factor(if it will change maybe conscripts will be the exception), and besides they can't recrew by now it can't be helped... but that not should be a death blow to EF like luz777 said:

The main reason that people moved away from this mod was the rather messy state it got released in, which has put those with no patience off. Release some updates to lure people back in, and keep going 

Don't listen to those losers, your mod is excellent, and i think minor changes could be implemented to make it better, so i vote for keep the faction the same. It's a shame no matter that the recrew bug still present... but hey, US have rifleman to do the job, and brits have tommies, they can do the "recrew" job, after all, those were their weapons, so why soviets would care ; in other hand, you could make ostheer and soviets, if the former will use weapons that could be recrewed, able to destroy them when all their crew die, like in ToV Tiger Ace mission, when you kill the two members, the third dies and the weapons just blows.

[wordsmith]

Why is recrewing important?

It's simple, because it put unpredictable thus unbalanced element into game. Imagine Soviet player making ZiS2 AT gun, playing vs Axis, Axis player manages to decrew it. Now there is one AT gun on a scene but Soviet could not use it anymore. But Axis could!

If Wehr player f.e. I wouldn't have to build Tier2 because I will stole this gun and skip right to Tier3 or 4. If PE even better because PE doesn't have a chance to build something like this. So here we have a situation that Soviet could NOT use his own weapons BUT they could be used against him. Not to mention that Soviet engineers can't place mines (even with Sturmovie Eng. upgrade) to at least mine that damn gun.

In such situation Soviet player must be very cautious with such equipment or doesn't use it at all. And this is why recrewing is important IMO. And same would apply to Ostheer too.....

[stryker]

FWIW I also prefer that the russians stay without the ability to recrew.  While it seemed like a pain at first, it is one of the uniques that you need to learn how to play around.  And it makes them a truly new side, not just more of the same.

I know others have said it before, but it's worth considering - if the russians could recrew, and they have 8 man squads running around then they'd be OP all over again.  I think the balance currently is pretty close.

Getting the Ostheer to have recrewing is another matter.  Being a german faction you'd hope they could.  I'd put my signature on a note to Relic if one's getting started.  I don't mind if there's no online ladder for these mods, but not being able to recrew is a bug pure and simple.

In fact the saddest thing is that if Relic aren't keen to fix the recrewing bug, it points to them not considering any further official expansions.  And that's a shame (even from a purely commercial perspective - there's lots of coin out there to be liberated from we punters yet !).

[Westoffensive]

- if you remove one (or all) Allies faction then you could install ONLY Russian faction and it will be able to re-crew weapons?[/b]
The above is the only way to make sure that Soviets and Ostheer factions will be able to re-crew weapons normally like WH/US. It is also the only way that we can acomodate 'Ranking online' as well as being able to automatch as you normally do. Without replacing the 2 factions all of this cannot and will not be fixed

Why should the soviets NOW be able to recrew the weapons? Aren´t they strong enough? And why the fuck is it neccessary to get a ranking system? Playing computer games is for fun - not to raise the self-confidence.

- vet-system is now not possible to implement? (same as previous question - if you replace it then it will be possible?)
It is possible, hence the answer "I agree with adding in retreat and vet, but keep the Relic factions"

Why should the soviets gain veterancy? Most of the units are strong enough to resist and are cheap enough to replace. You just have to spam tons of ingenerys to your opponent to win the game.

- retreat - same question, is it not possible to programm retreat without replacing old Relic faction?
It is possible, hence the answer "I agree with adding in retreat and vet, but keep the Relic factions".
Adding the retreat back to the soviets , is THE ONLY WAY to allow Prop War(and the officer equivalent) to work with the soviets.[/list]

Ok, this is a major problem but you should have known this during the conceptional phase. Why don´t you implement a retreat function to the soviets which gets only effected when prop war is used? Not possible?

-

Sorry guys but you should have think about these points during the conceptional phase of this mod.
In my opinion all of the thoughts above are moving into the wrong direction and I do not think that this is the result of claims and doubts you get. I guess this is a result of massive problems with implementation of the Ostheer even if nobody knows what they can expect except of the developers.

Maybe you should have better released this amazing mod (which I didn´t play anymore due to some balance crap) until both new factions were ready and playable.

You have always praised to implement to completely new and different factions in a full working relic system. If you are now going to do such major changings your mod is not better than all the other mods (don´t get me wrong, some of them are also amazing) and your philosophy has died.

It is like in real life and absolutely normal.
Major faults in the concepts mostly result in problems after going live but a redesign is the worst way even if a mod for a computer game isn´t really critical to the majority of you/us.

Improving insead of changing should be the device.

[BurroDiablo]

Sorry guys but you should have think about these points during the conceptional phase of this mod.

If you knew anything about the team, you'd know we couldn't because our Lead Developer was a stubborn dick. Now he's gone, we have the fluidity we need to make the necessary changes, even if they are extreme.

In my opinion all of the thoughts above are moving into the wrong direction and I do not think that this is the result of claims and doubts you get. I guess this is a result of massive problems with implementation of the Ostheer even if nobody knows what they can expect except of the developers.

Moving into the wrong direction? Explain. Plus, there will be no massive problems with implementing the Ostheer, they will suffer the same problems as the Soviets and that is all.

Maybe you should have better released this amazing mod (which I didn´t play anymore due to some balance crap) until both new factions were ready and playable.

Again, our old Lead Developer pushed this for a premature release, there was nothing the current team could have done about it.

You have always praised to implement to completely new and different factions in a full working relic system. If you are now going to do such major changings your mod is not better than all the other mods (don´t get me wrong, some of them are also amazing) and your philosophy has died.

What Philosophy? Being tied down to some unwritten rule that holds back progress? We implemented a new faction, bravo, but we also encountered the problems that come with that. You think recrewing would be out if there wasn't a bug? Of course it wouldn't.

It is like in real life and absolutely normal.
Major faults in the concepts mostly result in problems after going live but a redesign is the worst way even if a mod for a computer game isn´t really critical to the majority of you/us.

Improving insead of changing should be the device.

Improving results in changing and changing can result in improving. I'm afraid no matter what, you are stuck with change.

[Killar]

Since yersterday if have read every comment.

This topic was started because many people are unsatisfied with the lack of

- no retreat
- veterancy
- recrewing

I know that the hard core fans of this mod don´t bother that.
But there are many people outside this forum who wants to play that mod, but these limitations holds them back.

If we are discussing about dying of this mod, because of the lack of gamer, we should think of that.

More people could be attracted, if we give them what they want:

Retreat and Veterancy

- No Retreat only for the conscripts would be an interesting game part (cheap spammable infantry but cannon fudder) and despite from that historical. In addition the axis ability would work.

My question to deverlopers:

Is it possible to add retreat to a unit like strelky, but to avoid that the player can use the ability for this unit?

- veterancy, why not? The armoury supports the troops only with weapons not with veterancy.

These changes are already possible without changing vrelic factions

- the recrewing lack is still a very dramatically problem. I think this is the pivot of this discussion because of the upcoming Ostheer.

Despite of that it only effects heavy weapons HMG and ATguns. Light Weapons like Shreks and Bars are already useable by Soviet.

But is the recrewing problem really worthy of changing vcoh?

[Soviet_Justice]

1. RETREAT
I really don't know why so many people think that Red Army not retreating is so "historically correct". Yes, sure, there were times when Red Army units weren't allowed to retreat (especially in the early phases of the war), but later, and especially in 1944 (when this game is set!) it was not the case. And what about the famous Hitler order to not retreat? It makes more historical sense for a game set in 1944 to have the Germans not retreating than Soviets. Also, there's a difference between strategic and tactical retreat (in game it's always tactical!).
In short: ALLOW RETREAT FOR RED ARMY (except maybe for conscripts and NKVD team), IT MAKES MORE SENSE IN EVERY WAY AND MAKES FOR A BETTER GAMEPLAY!

2. VETERANCY
I'm for it, it makes sense and makes the game more fun.

3. RANKINGS AND AUTOMATCH
It would be nice, but not at expense of other things. In short, it's the least important thing (for me).

4. RE-CREWING
This is A MUST HAVE in my opinion, even at expense of PE & Brits. After all, if somebody starts COH:EF it's most likely because he wants to play Soviets or Ostheer, not Brits or PE. For Brits and PE there's always the regular COH. Also, having 6 factions makes tougher balancing.

[Killar]

1. RETREAT
(especially in the early phases of the war), but later, and especially in 1944 (when this game is set!)

the game isn´t set in 1944