Ostheer Air superiority = Stronger Luftwaffe presence

[Versedhorison]

I suppose that makes sense Its just Id really like to see this vehicle in the mod.

[wordsmith]

I'm not very fan of having another Luftwaffe doctrine in CoH despite the fact that I love aircrafts and everything related to it (I fly IL2 simulator often f.e.), I just think that it doesn't fit in Ostheer.... but if there should be Luftwaffe it could look for example like this :

Luftwaffe doctrine

Use the close cooperation with Luftwaffe on Eastern front. Fighters protect the air space over our troops while bombers seed fear into enemy.  Air transports bring tons of supplies in while could evacuate our brave wounded soldiers on a way back. For ground protection reliable Flakpanzer Gepard could be call-in.

 

Left side: Air/Ground command coordination

Me109 cover (1CP) - radio our fighters to protect air over us for while
- player active ability (100 Ammo), one swarm of Me109G-6 will cover us for a period of 2min., armed with powerful Rheinmetall-Borsig Mk108 30mm cannon destroys any plane trying to infiltrate our airspace
- will add ability to see on minimap and on radar the enemy vehicle units within a small radius of friendly units but in the fog of war - similar to Tank Awareness of PE-Tank busters doctr., this will apply only when Bf109s are deployed otherwise it will be not active

Ju87D strike (2CP) - radio our bombers to make holes in enemy lines
- player active ability (175 Ammo), Stuka bomber will dive drop 1xSC500 bomb on designed area, siren wail will also increase suppression in larger area around impact
- SC500 has similar effect as explosion of 2xGoliath, could be used to destroy single building or bridge

Artillery spotter (3CP) - coordinate our heavy arty guns with air recon spotter to have more precise barrage
- player active ability (300 Ammo), deadly 17cm K18 arty barrage will scorche designed area with good precision


Right side: Luftwaffe support

Medical evacuation (2CP) - Luftwaffe will help us move our wounded soldiers back to home
- building permit, pioneers can build medical tent (200 MP) which then gathers wounded men on battlefield and when enough men is gathered they are transported home and player receives 250 MP

Flakpanzer 38(t) (2CP) - outstanding AAA gun able to shoot infantry hordes too
- unit call-in 380MP cost

Arrange air supply chain (4CP) - Luftwaffe pilots will help us move supplies quickly to battlefield
- passive ability, +25 Ammo/min., +10Fuel/min.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Me109 cover (1CP) - radio our fighters to protect air over us for while
- player active ability (100 Ammo), one swarm of Me109G-6 will cover us for a period of 2min., armed with powerful Rheinmetall-Borsig Mk108 30mm cannon destroys any plane trying to infiltrate our airspace

Thought we had already discuss such a doctrine ability
One possible powerful doctrine slot for a ability which could be use just against US Airborn Doc, UK Commando Doc and SU Breakthrough - 3 of 9 possible enemy's doctrines and that for a price of 100 munition? That isnt a good trade...

Such an idea is perhaps a possibility for an "HQ research" so that u can research it when u had such an enemy on the map but this Me 109 air cover is no doctrine ability.

[wordsmith]

Thought we had already discuss such a doctrine ability
One possible powerful doctrine slot for a ability which could be use just against US Airborn Doc, UK Commando Doc and SU Breakthrough - 3 of 9 possible enemy's doctrines and that for a price of 100 munition? That isnt a good trade...

Sorry I forgot to add that this ability will add ability to see on minimap and on radar the enemy vehicle units within a small radius of friendly units but in the fog of war - similar to Tank Awareness of PE-Tank busters doctr. This will apply only when Bf109s are deployed otherwise it will be not active. I will include it to text. I was writing it yesterday night so it's possible I made a mistake.

[Ghost]

Sorry I forgot to add that this ability will add ability to see on minimap and on radar the enemy vehicle units within a small radius of friendly units but in the fog of war - similar to Tank Awareness of PE-Tank busters doctr. This will apply only when Bf109s are deployed otherwise it will be not active. I will include it to text. I was writing it yesterday night so it's possible I made a mistake.

...for 100 munitions?! well, i wouldn't use 100 munitions on that...

[wordsmith]

...for 100 munitions?! well, i wouldn't use 100 munitions on that...

Giving it less Ammo cost would render it OP... but what if this ability will uncover all vehicles on whole map for that period, not just close to my troops but to be able see all enemy vehicles (tanks, AT guns) on minimap and radar on whole map? For 2 minutes.

[Saavedra]

If the aircraft is armed with 30mm cannons, that´s enough to use it against other targets when there are no enemy airplanes around. It could attack light vehicles and infantry.

[Ghost]

[...]but what if this ability will uncover all vehicles on whole map for that period, not just close to my troops but to be able see all enemy vehicles (tanks, AT guns) on minimap and radar on whole map? For 2 minutes.

well, that sounds OP too, it's a 1 CP ability that can be chosen at the beginning. maybe it could work as a late game ability on the second/third doctrine spot. but i still would be too strong vs. airborne/etc. if it active for 2 mins.
Post Merge: April 11, 2010, 10:43:40 AM

If the aircraft is armed with 30mm cannons, that´s enough to use it against other targets when there are no enemy airplanes around. It could attack light vehicles and infantry.

vs. both planes AND ground targets? and what would be the range? planes would be attacked on the whole map - but other units? i'm not sure if giving it 2 ranges would be possible...

[wordsmith]

If the aircraft is armed with 30mm cannons, that´s enough to use it against other targets when there are no enemy airplanes around. It could attack light vehicles and infantry.

It has only 1 cannon, with about 65 rounds and it is meant vs air targets, especially vs heavilly armored or big ones like IL2 or P47 - just few rounds will turn those into fireball. Of course it could be used vs ground but in this ability I think it would be too much - like IL2 strike.

well, that sounds OP too, it's a 1 CP ability that can be chosen at the beginning. maybe it could work as a late game ability on the second/third doctrine spot. but i still would be too strong vs. airborne/etc. if it active for 2 mins.

What about if ability will cost 2CP and 150 Ammo? I think 2min is minimum for such ability, because lower time it will render it useless. Imagine you prepare strike and you want to be sure that no AT gun will drop behind or no IL2 will decimate you. So you call for air support and for a while you will be safe from those. Plus you will see for that while where defensive guns are or enemy armors.

Making it like 30sec or similar it would be useless in those terms. And seeing vehicles ability is must in this case because it would then only vs specific doctrines.

You see, as I explained before, I don't think other Luftwaffe doctrine should be present. I just thought about it and come with some ideas, just for fun. I like imaging things that's all

[HolyHappiness]

The Luftwaffe was a lot more prominent on the Eastern front than on the western, especially after the Battle of Britain, and in particular bombers. I would like to see an He-111 bombing run. These were very common on the eastern front, VERY COMMON. The strike should cost a lot (800-1200 ammunition) and the reload time lengthy (5 minutes) possibly even a one time use, but have the strike more crippling than a V1. Total desolation on whatever they hit. But if a member is shot down, don't have the same crash as other aircraft where the smash and that's it. Take the coding of the Waco glider and have the destroyed 111 crash and slide across the ground, crushing everything in it's path. Once it halts, it should become permanent cover because of its size, become an advantage to whoever shoots it down.

I'm seeing 3 He-111's in a triangle formation dropping 8-10 bombs over the intended target bringing even an HQ to near or total destruction (hence the reason I'm thinking one time use). I really think this could be a neat addition, medium bombers played a large role in air support. Like many call-ins, the target must be visible with the fog of war lifted.

I hate to use this as an example, but in Enemy at the Gates we see a downed He-111 with others flying over. Face it, everyone of you guys would love to place your sniper squad near a freshly downed He-111 as cover.

[Akalonor]

I'd love to see a bombing run(assuming you mean a classic free fall run, not an angled strike)but its impossible to get 1000 mu in a game (So I've heard)  and 800 may be aswell, lower it to about 350-400 and It'll get my vote.

About the ME109G6, I think it should cost two points to kick it off but only provide vehicle sight on the mini&tac maps for say 1 min and cost 80mu

[HolyHappiness]

I'd love to see a bombing run(assuming you mean a classic free fall run, not an angled strike)but its impossible to get 1000 mu in a game (So I've heard)  and 800 may be aswell, lower it to about 350-400 and It'll get my vote.

About the ME109G6, I think it should cost two points to kick it off but only provide vehicle sight on the mini&tac maps for say 1 min and cost 80mu

I like that, I just figured a ton of resources would be needed. I have, however, hit above 1000mu multiple times in some of my longer games. I usually play nice long games with my friends due to the fact I hate rushing with every fiber of my being (I rarely play online for that very reason). I believe it shows a different kind of strategic skill when you can break a late game stalemate, even though rushing is another skill that I hate. The bombers are one of those "late game stalemate breakers" that even if it were a 1 time call-in, could turn the tide of the game against any faction (all depending on how stupid the opponent is).

[Saavedra]

If you want to make an ability so powerful that it costs more than 200 munitions, it´s not the cost that needs to be addressed, BUT THE ABILITY. Nothing should be powerful enough to cost THAT MUCH.

800 munitions is retarded, no matter how powerful the ability is.

[TheReaper]

I think Hans Ulrich Rudel's tank hunter squad must be implemented, similar to the PE doctrinal ability. It's a special squad for counter the T34 spam.
According to the wikipedia:
"Tungsten carbide is often used in armor-piercing ammunition, especially where depleted uranium is not available or is politically unacceptable. The first use of W2C projectiles occurred in German Luftwaffe  tank-hunter squadrons, which used 37 mm autocannon  equipped Junkers Ju 87G dive bomber aircraft to destroy Soviet  T-34 tanks in World War II. Owing to the limited German reserves of tungsten, W2C material was reserved for making machine tools and small numbers of projectiles for the most elite combat pilots, like Hans-Ulrich Rudel. It is an effective penetrator due to its high hardness value combined with a very high density.

Tungsten carbide ammunition can be of the sabot type (a large arrow surrounded by a discarding push cylinder) or a subcaliber ammunition, where copper or other relatively soft material is used to encase the hard penetrating core, the two parts being separated only on impact. The latter is more common in small-caliber arms, while sabots are usually reserved for artillery use."
But that's just an idea for the Luftwaffe support.
Cheers.

[wordsmith]

If you want to make an ability so powerful that it costs more than 200 munitions, it´s not the cost that needs to be addressed, BUT THE ABILITY. Nothing should be powerful enough to cost THAT MUCH.

+1

Any ability should cost 250-300 Ammo max. otherwise is unuseable.

About JU87G - could be nice but it would be same as PE Hs129B-3 ability and besides I don't think devs gonna make models of planes, even IL2 run is using Hawker Typhoon model with USSR markings.