Unit - Reward suggestions thread:

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

I feel like im pissin in the wind to you axis fanboiz but the bleepin king tiger would not beat a IS-3 in a slugfest. it wouldnt!

Please keep a respectful tone and stick to facts. Only because The Volskinator estimates the KT would beat IS3 in a 1v1, he isn't an axis fanboy.
This doesn't really matter anyway. Look at the topic, it's not "Who has the best late war heavy tank and who beats who".
Thanks for the attention.

[RedGuard]

Edited, you can fix your panties now.

I can lobby for addition of a reward unit, if the convo turns into king tiger versus all so be it

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

My pants are desert dry..

I can lobby for addition of a reward unit, if the convo turns into king tiger versus all so be it

Sure you can, but please without using unnecessary insulting expressions.

[Blackbishop]

My pants are desert dry..

I can lobby for addition of a reward unit, if the convo turns into king tiger versus all so be it

Sure you can, but please without using unnecessary insulting expressions.

+1

Calm down dude , i don't see anything to be "pissed off". Let's just return to topic.

[Zerstörer]

The KT (if properly commanded/crewd) would almost assuredly beat the IS3 toe-to-toe. Although rare, many of the last remaining elite tank units were given glorious amounts of APCR Panzergrenate 40 ammunition. Not to mention the fact that KT crews, while fairly inexperienced with the tank they operated (as the KT served for what, 8 months?), they were seasoned veterans of tank combat--new crews would NEVER be trusted with a Tiger or panther, let alone a KT--nor the Jagdtiger/Jagdpanther; a might rarer and in the latter's case, more deadly (that speed IRL was a killer). Though if an IS3 was able to waltz up to a KT, yeah, it'd win from -900 or so meters. I'm not so keen on it, as if it replaced the IS2 it would blow, and it coultnt replace the ISU152 (it'd be blatantly OP). Atm, swapping the KV-85 for the T34/85 (or maybe the gloriously underused and under discussed SU85/SU100 (idea: the 'SU100' upgrade would just replace the SU85 with the KV-85, instead of just upgunning the SU?)

Not true. Read up the one and only engagement of a Pershing vs a KT. The KT crew although it ambushed the Pershing, it missed the first shot at what is almost point blank. It then proceeded to 'charge' by going over the ruble in such a crap way that it exposed the underbelly of the KT, only to get shot by the Pershing and blow up. Hardly experienced veterans....more like 16yr old kids behind the wheel....
Also, M48s with 90mm and modern HVAP ammo couldn't penetrate IS3 at normal combat ranges in the East and were knocked out by IS3s in turn. It would be an even fight more or less with IS3s enjoying mobility and numbers - Not a nice prospect....
Finally, you can't possibly say a unit will be OP if you don't know what the stats would be. Plus...we don't have one atm and there are no current plans either so, best not continue on the specific subject

[Shadowmetroid]

^+1

[tpcoughlin]

My pants are desert dry..

I can lobby for addition of a reward unit, if the convo turns into king tiger versus all so be it

Sure you can, but please without using unnecessary insulting expressions.

1

Calm down dude , i don't see anything to be "pissed off". Let's just return to topic.

Gentlemen. Tempers are rising here. I think as much because of honest differences of opinion; as because of national or ethnic pride. The discussion of Soviet and American Tank developments during the Last part of WWII is fascinating. I think we might all benefit by moving this part of the discussion to the history forum.

I don't think anyone involved in the current discussion is trying to slur or insult anyone. I think what we have here is called a passionate debate,

The KT (if properly commanded/Crewed) would almost assuredly beat the IS3 toe-to-toe. Although rare, many of the last remaining elite tank units were given glorious amounts of APCR Panzergrenate 40 ammunition. Not to mention the fact that KT crews, while fairly inexperienced with the tank they operated (as the KT served for what, 8 months?), they were seasoned veterans of tank combat--new crews would NEVER be trusted with a Tiger or panther, let alone a KT--nor the Jagdtiger/Jagdpanther; a might rarer and in the latter's case, more deadly (that speed IRL was a killer). Though if an IS3 was able to waltz up to a KT, yeah, it'd win from -900 or so meters. I'm not so keen on it, as if it replaced the IS2 it would blow, and it coultnt replace the ISU152 (it'd be blatantly OP). Atm, swapping the KV-85 for the T34/85 (or maybe the gloriously underused and under discussed SU85/SU100 (idea: the 'SU100' upgrade would just replace the SU85 with the KV-85, instead of just upgunning the SU?)

TheVolskinator                         raises many good points Here that relate to game design in EF.

1."The KT (if properly commanded/crewed)"...If this means experienced commanders and crews it is a veterancy issue.
..... if on the other hand it refers to: 4 or 5 man tank crew sizes, and 1 or 2 man gun turrets this is a consideration for the model designers.
2. "glorious amounts of APCR Panzergrenate 40 ammunition"....
I question the validity of this Statement. In the US army APCR
ammunition was issued to American Armor elements in July 1944. Patton for one was opposed to this ammo, (I don't remember why). Tungsten = Wolfram_Ger was in rare supply during WWII. (I suspect the Sovs had the most ready access to it). American tanks seldom had more than 6 rounds available. In September? The US prioritized the T₂ APCD ammo for use in the Tank destroyer Elements.

Use of APCR and Pz.Granate 40 ammo in Coh/EF should have a high muni cost to it. modification of this cost should be used for play balance only. I don't know what kind of APCR ammo the Soviets had or used In WWII, is suspect they had the same availability as the Amis. Use of Sov APCR ammo should not be a global  upgrade. it should have a per use type of muni cost.

The suggestion to replace the T34/85 with the KV85 has merit. It is do-able within the constraints of the EFv1.3.1 T4HQGUI. In fact the KV/85 was shown in Ostheer A5.5. DevTeam has yet to announce what the Neutral MBT  is contemplated for EF_Ostheer. I'm betting on the BT_7M_fast_tank. I was very pleased to see the  BA10M AC is being considered for the AC role. The BA64[/]AC[/]   shown in Ostheer A5.5  is a good choice, but the BA10 has such classic lines. It is possible to get the T34/75, T34/85, KV85 and BT7M into the T4HQ GUI, but either the LT tanks or the Tank Killers would have to be moved to the Sov T3HQ GUI1. Ah but "Thyme, it is a precious thing".

WTF! If you don't understand the last paragraph Just read the Bold Type and google on (wwii   "navaho code talkers").

Is the SU76 an ATG or indirect fire  CS AFV?

BTW today April 12, 2011 is the 150th anniversary of "the first shot fired on Fort Sumter", the outbreak of fighting in the US Civil War. E. Ruffin of Virginia fired it.

<sub>Footnotes
1. If you need help I can do the GUI layout and macro logic. I don't code. Sure wish I had a better handle on the Insert Table fcn.</sub>


 

[Ghost]

Do you support the IS-3, ghost? or the maus for that matter?

NO MAUS! wouldn't fit into CoH and wasn't used.
about IS-3...i don't need to see it in EF but i don't oppose it either 
i just tried to say that some people will start calling for something stupid like maus if a tank (IS-3) is included that didn't fight on eastern front.
Post Merge: [time]Mi 13 Apr 2011 01:02:49 GMT+8[/time]

Not true. Read up the one and only engagement of a Pershing vs a KT. The KT crew although it ambushed the Pershing, it missed the first shot at what is almost point blank. It then proceeded to 'charge' by going over the ruble in such a crap way that it exposed the underbelly of the KT, only to get shot by the Pershing and blow up. Hardly experienced veterans....more like 16yr old kids behind the wheel....[...]

You're referring to the Super Pershing (M26E4) fight described by Irwin/Zaloga. The german tank wasn't indentified and was only rumored to be a tiger (by irwin) while the other guy (Zaloga) says it wasn't....

[TheVolskinator]

The gunner was also 17, green, and it was pegged as a luck shot. There are no records of any elite panzer movements, invloving anything heavier than a Panzer IV, within 20 miles of the area where the 'ambush' was rumored to have taken place. A KT would also avoid urban combat; its a big, slow target. It loved open plains where it's superior range could outfight the enemy (which was my point in KT vs. IS3. If the KT crew was any good, they could probably hit the IS3 long before the IS3 was within it's own gun range/could get an accurate shot off). A solid hit might not outright kill the tank, but it's pretty easy to assume an 88mm shell would stun them pretty good.

Enough o' that, don't want a flame war. KV-85 as a replacement for the SU; other than planned additions (Maxim gun, DHsK MG team, BA-64 AC, etc), I think the RA is pretty fair off as it is (IMO).

[RedGuard]

why would we want a kv85? it was old and junk

we have the kv-2 already which does everything the kv85 did but better

also I think the devs have their minds made up about reward units so we may just be pissin in the wind here

[Blackbishop]

why would we want a kv85? it was old and junk

we have the kv-2 already which does everything the kv85 did but better

also I think the devs have their minds made up about reward units so we may just be pissin in the wind here

Perhaps you are confusing those units, but KV-85 is more like upgunned sherman and KV-2 is like StuH.

[IJoe]

It doesn't have any particularly original and appealing outlook, nor was it of some significant efficiency. Basically, a dead branch in tank development. So there's no reason to include it, IMO.

[One-eye]

Basically, a dead branch in tank development. So there's no reason to include it, IMO.

Yes, but most of the heavy tanks used during the war could be described in the same way.

I would argue that the KV shouldn't be underestimated, it was a tough little tank and for me it represents some of the earlier soviet tank development.  That's always been one thing i've felt this mod should have is a little bit more hardware from the 39-42 period. 

But hey that's just my opinion!

[IJoe]

I was referring to KV-85 suggestion. This particular model was produced for like half a year only, if I'm not mistaking.

[One-eye]

I was referring to KV-85 suggestion. This particular model was produced for like half a year only, if I'm not mistaking.

Yeah according to wiki 148 were produced, i've suggested before that you could have a KV-1 with an upgrade to a KV-85 thus killing two birds with one stone.