General suggestions thread: ( veterancy, tiers, buildings, and so on )

[Werwolf]

I like Wordsmith's idea. Hmm, would each succeeding award upgrade the armor of said unit (i.e. normal >> airborne >> hero)? 

Here are a few building suggestions as well:

Since the Ostheer had to shift very quickly between offensive and defensive tactics on the Eastern Front, it makes sense to put a premium on base area space (as few buildings as possible) to make more room for defensive structures etc. Forward HQs and mobile repair workshops are included to keep up with the rapidly-changing pace of front-line combat (and to somehow recreate the "wandering pockets" that the Eastern Front was famous for).

Führungshauptamt (Command HQ)
Allows the production of T1-T2 infantry (i.e. Waffen-Grenadiers [standard inf.], Sturmpioniere [base-building/assault engineers] and Dirlewangers [cannon-fodder] etc.). Additional units such as Gebirgsjägers (special assault troops), Hauptsturmführer (field officer unit), and Kübelwagen/Sturmbannführer are made available once Führungshauptamt Upgrade has been purchased from the Waffenamt. These units are also available at the Feldquartier (Forward HQ).

Waffenamt
Allows the research of technologies for abilities and upgrades.

Maschinenwerkstatt
Allows the production of T1-T2 vehicles and tanks.

Panzerabteilung HQ
Allows the production of T3 vehicles and tanks. Can be upgraded to Schwere-Panzerabteilung HQ by the Waffenamt, allowing production of super-heavy tanks such as the Elefant or Tiger(P).

Feldquartier (Forward HQ)
Garrisoned infantry units can upgrade a building to a Feldquartier, which can also reinforce/heal the player's depleted/wounded infantry units. The Feldquartier can also produce units from the Führungshauptamt, as well as defensive vehicles such as PaKs.

Versorgungslager
Kübelwagen/Sturmbannführer can upgrade a supply point to a supply depot to increase overall output (must be within friendly territory).

Reparaturwerkstatt (mobile deployable unit)
Sturmpioniere can call-in a mobile workshop (SdKfz. 9) to repair nearby vehicles and tanks. Reparaturwerkstatt has to lock-down/deploy before it can perform any repairs.


For veterancy, I stick to a simpler scheme based on Waffen-SS ranks:

1. "Der Spieß" (universal unit upgrade*; promotes NCOs of the Waffen-Grenadier squads to the duty-rank of Stabsscharführer, giving additional veterancy and morale bonuses)

*Also enables "Break Suppression" (2 mins. 30 secs. cooldown time) and "Blut und Ehre" (Squad defends more fiercely with increased firing rate at the expense of speed and mobility; +100 mun. per use)

2. Feldpolizei (squad upgrade to Dirlewangers; attaches 4 additional Feldpolizei armed with pistols to keep these rough men back in line and also increases their survivability)

3. Hauptsturmführer
"Officers should lead by example and fight from the front!" --- A heroic veteran officer with 2 adjutants to lead the troops (can be attached to Waffen-Grenadier, Dirlewanger, Gebirgsjäger and Sturmpionier squads). This unit cannot be suppressed.

380 MAN
Abilities:           
1. Sprint (cooldown time 1 min. 30 secs.)
2. Grenade (Steilhandgranate 43 [std.; cooldown time 30 secs], Bundled Grenade [+75 mun. per use])
3. Fire Panzerfaust (+35 mun. per use)
4. "Force Retreat" (cooldown time 3 mins.)
5. "Zeal" (cooldown time 3.5 mins.)
6. "Sore Throat" (Haupsturmführer becomes inflamed with a desire for glory to win additions for his Knight's Cross! Increases offensive damage in exchange for defensive penalties; +100 mun.)

Possible Universal Upgrades:
1. Splitterring (squad or universal unit upgrade; upgrades standard Steilhandgranate 43 with a fragmentation sleeve to cause greater damage)
                         
Weapon Loadout:
1. Standard (1x MP40, 2x StG 44)

[2LTAndeh]

I've always preferred the Wehrmacht's way of veterancy research to the Panzer Elite's. I feel like it requires more strategic thinking given that it costs resources to upgrade a unit and each unit type has its own tech tree. That said, I think the Ostheer can implement something similar while maintaining a unique identity. Heres my idea: The Ostheer has a buildable research structure, the Waffenamt, that can be built at any point in the game and rebuilt as many times if it is destroyed without losing previously researched vet.

The Waffenamt has four research categories with two veterancy tiers that adds a junior officer or NCO to that particular unit. (Whether or not the officer is shown on the field I leave up to the devs.) Each vet tier gives a particular kind of bonus only to a select kind of unit of a particular category. For example, Infanterie Feldwebel I only gives a bonus to light infantry and light crewed weapons. Infanterie Feldwebel II only gives a bonus to standard infantry and heavy crewed weapon teams.

Tier 3 veterancy upgrades are doctrine specific that give a bonus to the doctrine specific units and a unique bonus to other units in their respective categories. These are researched at the Gebirgsjägerschule (Army Group North), Panzertruppenschule (Army Group Center), and the SS-Junkerschule (Army Group South).

Waffenamt (Research Building.) 100MP.
   Armor Research:
Panzer Leutnant I -Armored cars and Panzer IIs are led by a junior officer. Units are less likely to receive mobility damage. (200MP. 25Fuel.)

Panzer Leutnant II -Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs are led by a junior officer. Units are more accurate and damaged engines are repaired slowly when the panzer is idle. (250MP. 35Fuel.)
     
   Infantry Research:
Infanterie Feldwebel I -Infantry are led by an experienced NCO. Increases the combat effeciancy of Jäger Truppen and MG42 teams.Jäger Truppen are less prone to suppression and have a greater line of sight. MG42 Teams take less time to suppress infantry. (250MP. 25Fuel.)

Infanterie Feldwebel II -Increases the combat efficiency of Grenadiers and Mortar Teams. Units are more accurate and have more health. (250MP. 35Fuel.)

   Engineer Research:
Pionier Feldwebel I -Panzerpionier units are led by an experienced NCO. Base structures and defenses are built at a slightly faster rate. (150MP. 10Fuel.)

Pionier Feldwebel II -Panzerpionier units build sturdier structures and defenses. Base buildings and light defenses have more health. (200MP. 20Fuel.)

   Artillery Research:         
Artillerie Leutnant I -Artillery crews and AT crews are led by a junior officer. Increases the combat efficiency of sIG33 Guns crews and PaK 40 crews. Units have a faster rate of fire. (200MP. 25Fuel.)

Artillerie Leutnant II -Marder II crews are led by a junior officer. Units have a greater line of sight and are more likely to score disability hits. (200MP. 30Fuel.)


Gebirgsjägerschule

Gebirgsjäger Infanterie Leutnant -SS Mountain troops are led by a junior officer highly experienced in mountain warfare. They are not slowed by rough terrain, are less prone to suppression, and their squad sniper can slow enemy infantry. (300MP. 30Fuel.)

Gebirgsjäger Artillerie Hauptmann -Gebirgsgeschütz 36 Gun crews are led by a mid-level officer experienced in mountain warfare. Artillery crews are very accurate, have a faster rate of fire and shorter cool-down time. (300MP.40Fuel.)

Belagerungpionier Leutnant -Belagerungpionier units are led by a junior officer. They build light and heavy defenses faster and more durable than Panzerpioniers and can repair buildings much faster. (200MP. 30Fuel.)

Panzertruppenschule

Panzer Hauptmann -Panzer III, IV, and Tiger I crews are lead by an experienced officer. They are highly accurate, have a faster rate of fire, and crews will automatically initiate field repairs when the Panzer is idle and has less than 50% health. (300MP. 45Fuel.)

Panzerschützen Leutnant -Panzerschützen units are lead by a junior officer. Squad LMGs can suppress, slowly heal when idle, and are more likely to score mobility hits when using the Panzerfaust. (300MP. 30Fuel.)

SS-Junkerschule

SSTruppenoffiziere -All infantry units are led by an experienced and tough SS-Obersturmführer. Infantry units are highly accurate, very hard to suppress, and will receive less damage as squad members are killed. (300MP. 45Fuel.)

[Werwolf]

2nd idea:
What if you could upgrade German tanks to have the ability to lock down (yes i know that has been suggested on another thread, but this is different) However, while they are in lockdown ability they act kinda like the PE Scout Car in the sense that the enemy cant capture the base while it is in lockdown.
also, this tank can call in artillery strikes, and increase line of site. It may even have the ability to call in pioneers, or automatically repair vehicles around it. It may sound overpowered, but maybe you could set a limit on how many you could upgrade.

...Sounds a lot like the Kübelwagen/Sturmbannführer I suggested in the Unit Suggestions thread  though it wasn't as OP 

[TheReaper]

Global experience - the point is that all units experience gained is counted together in one building and then redistributed to individual units as medals, giving this unit some benefits. F.e.:

Prestige center (100 MP, 10 Fuel)
Prestige center serves as gathering point for experience. Units doesn't become veterans by experience, instead all experienced is counted inside this building and can be checked every time clicking on it. For those experience points medals can be granted to particular units, making it then more valuable in combat:
20exp Iron Cross 1st class
50exp German Cross
90exp Knight's Cross

Each medal is then displayed with unit's banner similar to PE def/off veterancy. Each unit can receive only 1 individual medal, it doesn't have to have lower medals to receive bigger one. So it is possible to distribute a Knight's cross to a unit without any medal. Effect of medals are cumulative, higher medal has bigger impact. Medals could also grant some special ability.

Something similar in the "Cross of Iron" Mod and it looks awesome. Elite units not have some dot above the banner. My ideas are the following (I didn't wrote in the right thred):

Idea of Tank Veterancy for the ostheer

In the tank crew, there are 4-5 people, the driver, gunner, commander, etc. So I want to come up with anidea:
In different veterancy, the tank can have the following upgrades with vet:
-faster turret speed
-faster reloading time
-faster turning speed
-blowing down the turret, or the tracks
-increase the line of sight
-Don't know if it can be accomplish: when the tank turns, the turret is turning with it

-extra veterancy, for very high kill ratio: can became command vehicle, like the british command tank, but it takes a lot of xp

As in real life the crew gain experience, not the tank. So, no gaining heroic armor, or "can-upgrade über weapon", the tankers skill would be improve. It represents that, the crew reacting much faster in the battle.  What do you think?

[TheReaper]

I want to add something to my toughts above:
Normally a tank get minus for accuracy, when moving.
-With vet this would be decresed (for example a vet 3 Ost tank has no penality to accuracy, when moving, like the M10)

Like in the real world again, Rommel introduced this new tactic for his "ghost division", like shoot-when move, but Lord Rommel I think can tell us more about this.
Post Merge: July 14, 2010, 11:00:34 PMI looked into it, and it the 7th Panzer Division fought under Kursk, so it could be implemented, as a doctrinal, or just a tactical style of the Ostheer.
Post Merge: July 14, 2010, 11:01:07 PMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Panzer_Division_%28Germany%29#.22Ghost_Division.22_.2F_.22Phantom_Division.22_under_Erwin_Rommel

[kakatrot]

what if there was a way to have the ostheer slowdown, maybe like a reverse vet.  maybe like they come out really strong and fast, but as the battle continues they slow down and lose firepower, and the only way to get their originally stats back is to pay for upgrades with muni and fuel.  its seems like they should juxtapose to the Sowjet troops.  maybe reinforcing costs continually increase? 

[Akalonor]

Maybe instead of over time its a "Group Zeal" kindof thing , as they lose soldiers they get"Demoralized" And become slightly weaker.

[Lord Wiffleby]

I recently had this idea, though it may only seem good on paper.

What if the Ostheer were created as if it were specifically tailored for doing everything better than the Soviets?

Allow me to explain: As an example, in order to counter large Soviet units, why not give the Ostheer a 6 man unit similar in strength and abilities to the Whermacht grenadiers? It would cost 100 manpower per soldier, perhaps a little extra. At the same time, it would reinforce slowly and expensively. In other words, the unit would almost be too powerful. An American commander could put out two rifleman units for less manpower. In other words, unless these Ostheer units are continually supplied with reinforcements and extra units, it is very easy for them to get outflanked and outnumbered.  It would also need to inflict heavy damage to any opponents early on, otherwise it will still find itself in a losing battle of numbers.

Now then, apply the general concept to the whole Ostheer. It is powerful when a good commander uses the troops right. He can muster an overwhelming force of these troops if he keeps them from being fully destroyed, but if he loses too many, then he will have to choose his battles wisely. In other words, the Ostheer would be a bit like an elephant: large and powerful, but very clumsy and slow.

[Aouch]

In other words, the Ostheer would be a bit like an elephant: large and powerful, but very clumsy and slow.

While I agree with you that Ostheer should be superior early in game, I think that your elephant-comparison don't fit to that idea:
Good early in game, few but powerfull infantry (many HP etc.) paired with inferior medium-tank-support (Pz III) but good anti-tank-units like StuG or Marder.
Also a mobile army, yet with possibilities to defend ground.
All this comes at a high cost of resources, through upgrades or better high upkeep.

The elephant better fits to potentially doctrin-units like the tankdestroyer Elefant. 

[sebipatru2]

I'm staying here and i'm reading and i really need to say what i need to say
1. the ostheer was a multinational army not a german one
2. the action of the game is happening somewhere in 44 so we need to see what countries were fighting against USSR in that time alongside Germany, and these contries were mainly Romania, Hungary, Finland, and some divisions of Slovakia and Croatia
3. these contries were never fighting together(Romania and Hungary were practically in war one with the other)
so in my opinion Ostheer need to have a german tech tree and the three doctrines should represent the contribution of the mainly allies in that time
 romania, hungary an finland

[Blackbishop]

I'm staying here and i'm reading and i really need to say what i need to say
1. the ostheer was a multinational army not a german one
2. the action of the game is happening somewhere in 44 so we need to see what countries were fighting against USSR in that time alongside Germany, and these contries were mainly Romania, Hungary, Finland, and some divisions of Slovakia and Croatia
3. these contries were never fighting together(Romania and Hungary were practically in war one with the other)
so in my opinion Ostheer need to have a german tech tree and the three doctrines should represent the contribution of the mainly allies in that time
 romania, hungary an finland

dude... wrong thread... besides this was already discussed.

[Muaddib]

IMO, a simple weapon unlock for each veterancy level should be simple enough to code. The Ostheer should be the hardest, battle hardened SOBs in the German army, ergo, they are already veterans, giving them new weapons and skill sets per veterancy level should reflect on this.

The longer they fight and kill, the more weapons and skills they gather. High vet soldiers should have good anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons with sprint ability to boot.

[Paciat]

The longer they fight and kill, the more weapons and skills they gather. High vet soldiers should have good anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons with sprint ability to boot.

Do you really think that German soldiers were the fittest in the world (sprint)?
Its the US and Commonwealth that ate enough to have strength and trained everyday (some for 2 years) running for miles in the UK.
The more they took casualties (and got reinforced by volks or wounded) the less of an efective force they were. German army was at their prime in 1941!

[Blackbishop]

Merged.

[Pauly3]

hey parciat CoH aint that realistic
volks beat rifles sometimes...wtf? old men and kids vs regulars?