Unit suggestion thread:

[delmar77]

Olorin....Good Work

+1 for Volkssturm Squad with Mp-3008 and  VG-1-5.

nice background!

[Pauly3]

i think it is a sound idea, but you have to consider that volkssturm wasnt deployed early war.
AND many volkssturm men (and boys) were slaugthered by experienced allied troops
they were considered to be practically useless...

[Olorin]

I am aware they were not used until the Soviets had entirely pushed the Germans out of Russia, but it seems that one of the generally accepted ideas for the Ostheer is that they should reflect how the war changed from the Germans initially pressing deep into Soviet territory, to the stalemate, and their eventual continual losses.

The idea for the Volkssturm is that they would be an option into the latter part. While what you say is true to some degree, it is not representative of the Volkssturm as a whole.

Indeed, many of them were actually World War 1 veterans, whose experience would serve them well...

The quality of the troops varied, but it follows a kind of scheme. The Volkssturm were classified into four different levies.

Levy 1 was the classification for troops that had been raised some weeks in advance, and had been given a degree of training. These troops were intended to brought along on campaigns.

The troops I have outlined would be Levy 1. The ones you seem to be referring to would be levy 3 or 4.

Yet despite them being 'slaughtered in droves' as you put it, the Soviets consistently suffered greater casualties than would be expected.

There are a few key things that separate them from the soviet conscripts.
1. Experience(taking into account world war 1 veterans, who while didn't make up the bulk of these troops, it's enough to take into consideration.
2. Generally better equipment(Unless you are talking about the very, very end like March/April 1945)
3. Consequences for losing - They probably would just be murdered by the Soviet troops if they were captured, and it's worth saying that the Soviets were generally more merciful towards the Volkssturm than regular uniformed men. Their homes would be looted and pillaged, and their wives and daughters raped.

I don't say this to be picking on the Russians either, as point #3 was true for the Soviet Troops in the initial stage of the war, but by the time the Volkssturm come into play this would be reversed.

Of course as with all irregular troops, quality is varied. Some would surrender at the mere sound of the approach of the enemy, others would fight down to the last man. The ones I have suggested for an appearance in the Ostheer would be somewhere inbetween, more leaning towards the latter.

[Pauly3]

although your points are valid (soviets suffered casualties vs the Volkssturm and the Volks were well equipped) sending old chaps(60 years) and boys (16 years) vs the Us Tanks and the soviet armys was a useless idea. It was a desperate attempt to turn the course of the war. The brother of my uncle was forced into the volkssturm in 1945. He was 16 at that time. on their march (no trucks availible) to the front all his Zug (large squad) and his seasoned sergeant (a ww1 veteran, as you mentioned) was killed by US aircrafts strafing them. Took him 3 weeks to get home....But you are right in some cases Volkssturm defended positions longer than expected

[Olorin]

It was a desperate attempt to turn the course of the war.

There you go! Now you're catching on. This is precisely what one of the doctrines, or last tier of the faction should represent, should the idea that the Ostheer along with the soviets should progress in a roughly chronological manner.

Even in Relic's faction, the Panzer Elite, you see Scorched Earth Tactics represented as a doctrine, but for the time frame that is covering it wasn't really that great of a choice, and it is the worst doctrine of any faction, in my opinion.

Anyway, that was the general idea, that they would represent the later stage and a desperate attempt to hold the line. Although I would disagree with you that "it was useless to send them against tanks" there were surpluses of panzerfausts, to the degree that men would sometimes be given one instead of a rifle, and indeed, I forget the specific unit but one unit had staved off a Soviet Armored division in the siege of Berlin. Given the circumstances, that's pretty impressive.

And as interesting as your anecdote is, I don't see how it is really relevant at all. Unsupported infantry, regardless of quality, will be mowed down by strafing runs.

I had some further ideas for the actual implementation of the unit, but that goes beyond the scope of the unit in context of combat.

[Pauly3]

ok i can accept Volkssturm as a last ditch effort. Late game.
But you shouldnt equip them all with VGs (wasnt used that much) and Scorched earth with PE can be the BEST doctrine ever if  used correctly

[comrade2012]

Germans also used to send boys on bicycles equipped with panzerfausts to go up against Russian tanks. It worked, but only to a certain degree.

[Akalonor]

Not as bad as Americans strapping bombs to Bats O.o

[comrade2012]

that was brilliant!!!!! they actually stole the idea from Ghengis Khan. Khan told a town that he would spare them if they gave him all their cats and birds, so they did. However, once they got the cats and birds, the Mongols tied cotton to all the cats and birds, and lit the cotton on fire. The cats and birds, scared to death, ran back to their owners homes, thus setting the town ablaze!!!!!!!!

[wordsmith]

You mean something like this?:


Actually it's only a half joke because this model is included in Axis units in Worldbuilder

[Akalonor]

How'd he reload?

[comrade2012]

What if the Ostheer had a unit that was comprised of dogs??? like German shepherds. They could be commanded by a dog trainer guy and could root out enemies that were in camo.

Also, you could make it to where the could attack infantry for a short period of time.

[guynumber7]

yeah late game i think you should be able to build panzerfaust guy for 50 manpower. He has 2 panzerfausts AND THATS IT. once he fires both, he retreats to HQ and runs away.

[Blackbishop]

What if the Ostheer had a unit that was comprised of dogs??? like German shepherds. They could be commanded by a dog trainer guy and could root out enemies that were in camo.

Also, you could make it to where the could attack infantry for a short period of time.

dogs are hard to animate.

[BurroDiablo]

Hard is an understatement...