Unit suggestion thread:

[LeaderH]

Some suggestions:


Armour:

Panzer II-f : The light tank for Germans, 20mm autocannon, a MG34 CMG and vulnerable to Soviet AT rifles. This thing should be mostly used in infantry support and killing light tanks/armoured vehicles. This tank might be problematic to be put in the game as it is not used in late war.

Panzer III J/L/N : The main battle tank for the Germans in the early years, the earlier versions had a 50mm tank cannon while the late versions got a long barrel 50mm Gun and thicker front armour.

I would suggest an ability of firing special tungsten AP ammos to let them have a chance fighting T34s. There could be upgrades to long barrel L/M versions like that you upgrade 75mm shermans to 76mms. Another suggested upgrade is the armour, one should be able to spend some munitions to have improvised frontal armour plates.

While adding this tank is interesting, I don't know how useful these tanks would be in late game. Unless when you have the long barrel IVF2/G/H, you would as well have the panzer IIIs "upgraded" to the N version which is used for close support purpose, bearing a 75mm howitzer as that on the earlier panzer IVs.

Panzer IV D/E/F1 Another common support tank in the German invading force, and they are among the tanks that are capable of dealing with the KVs.

They should be mainly infantry support but should be having the abilities to fire HEAT rounds to fight tanks effectively.

It would be fair for us to have them "Upgraded" to have longer barrel guns of the F2/G/H versions. From what I recall, both F2 and G versions have the similar gun and armour, while the H version had the best gun and best armour with the skirts also.

Stug III B/G: These stuffs destroyed most tanks in the war, it would be fair to make them the tank destroyers and some semi-useful infantry support stuffs. The B version is an early war non-anti-tank version.

Special AT Units:Marder I/II/III Either One of these would fit into some tank-destroying doctrine call-ins, as something that is cheaper/more vulnerable than the tanks yet having good AT firepower.

Special AT Units:Elefant These big guys... eats tanks like vegetables, need not to say that these must be special units. Not really necessary to be added in, however.

Artillery Pieces

PaK 35/38/40 Early War Anti-tank guns to late war AT guns, I would like that you would have them replaced by the newer guns when you tech up.

LeFH18 Some basic artillery pieces like the american 105mm.

Infantry Units

Brandenburgers Elite Infantry armed with SMG/Rifles and explosives for the commandos, and for the "regular units" there should be machine guns as well, they should be the East Front KCHs.

MG34 LMG/HMG It would be weird to see MG42s in action in the early war, these MG34 stuffs are simply inferior guns and should be "replaced" by MG42s when teched up.

Anti-Tank Teams Early war units should be equipped with AT rifles and AT grenades, while late war units should be equipped with Panzerschrecks.

Scouts These should be the starting units of the Germans, they should be equipped with rifles with the option of arming them with SMGs. They should be able to fire panzerfausts when teched up.

[Jono]

i think the ostheer should have the Opel blitz as a starting unit along with pioneers or whatever they are going to have. and it should be able to upgrade to three things
1, Mobil hospital when set up it collect dying men and reform them into new swaud
2, Mobil repair station when set up it repair vehicles
3,communacations truck it can spot tanks within a certain radius in the fog of war

[Venoxxis]

Instead of suggestion a finishsed unit, i will suggest a weapon. This weapon was widly used as trustly AT weapon, especially when it came up and the armour of the tanks wasnt so thick yet.

In this thread we could form with your ideas a usefull slot for this weapon in the ostheer which it surly deserves.


So what im talking about now?
In general the weapon was called "Gewehrgranatgerät". It can be translated as rifle-granade-lancher. This name was given to several weapons, weapons which had the ability to shoot granades. As a example the widly used K98, the "Granate" was set on the top of the barrel, and the fired round hit it and accelerated it.

HE grandes could be used and AT granades as well. The technology of later AT granades are compareable to the ones of the schreck which made it pretty powerfull. (hollow charge tech.)


I would suggest using the
"K98 Gewehrgranatgerät"
Gewehrgranatgerät K98 Info.

To make the K98 able to shot granades,
a "Schießbecher" gotta be installed first to mount the granades.

Schießbecher big/smal :



Mounted and ready to fire:



Its Penatration abilities are quite differrent.. early heavy AT granades could penetrate 80mm @60°. Thats quite good but late-war granades developed by the "SS" could penetrate up to 120mm of steel (SS-Gewehrpanzergranate 61).
Granten-info (german) couldnt find a usefull english link.





To put it in a nutshell:

- The granades were widly used
- Useable on the K98
- great anti tank power up to 100m
- variation of anti tank weapons ingame
- a new AT-weapon for the front of steel is a must have



Regards,
-V-

[Akalonor]

What would its Anti infantry uses be ? sounds good so far ,but Im concerned it may be a little under effective.

[Venoxxis]

For example just pick 1-2 man in a 4-5 man squard with mp40. That would make them quite usefull and for sure not underpowered. generally speaking, this weapon should be used in a squad.

Another idea is to make these granades useable for every unit which uses the K98 after an upgrade, that sounds best for me at the moment

[Panzer4life]

The rifle grenades for AT purpose sounds like a upgrade the squad could get. Like two of the men are armed with kar-98s with three more men have Mp-40s. It cost 50 ammo to upgrade the squad to have two men use the rifle grenades. if that is how they will be used, than the idea is good.

[BDNeon]

How effective would these Gewehrgranatgerät nades be in the game though? Historically speaking, even the later models incorporating shaped charge tech were only marginally effective against medium tanks like the Sherman, and pretty much useless against heavily armored tanks. Are we talking penetration values similar to the soviet AT rifle then?

[Versedhorison]

I think those rifle grenades are simmilar to *ahem* the british rifle grenades.

[Venoxxis]

How effective would these Gewehrgranatgerät nades be in the game though? Historically speaking, even the later models incorporating shaped charge tech were only marginally effective against medium tanks like the Sherman, and pretty much useless against heavily armored tanks. Are we talking penetration values similar to the soviet AT rifle then?

Actually, the were way more powerfull than AT rifles. Shermans were no match for these granades at all. The very first heavy-granade (Große Gewehrpanzergranate [GGP] 40) could penetrate the shermans front already. these could penetrate 80mm of steel @ 60°. Later versions came up to 120mm. (!) German source

The only problem was that the gunman gotta get close to the enemies tanks.
But infact this way to destroy tanks was a very evil one since the gunman doesnt need to carry a heavy weapon around, and because of his mobility they were even harder to spot.

[Tägermonf]

Panzerwerfer
Type: Support Arty. ( 50FUEL, 300MP)
Role: Anti-Building, Anti-Tank.



the Panzerwerfer would act as the German Kats, firing 8 15cm HE Rockets in quick speed, it would be armed with a MG34 MG For self-defence, and could hold a small squad of 3 Troops inside it.

Upgrades: Flammenbolshevik - Gains the ablitty to fire all 8 of now-incendiary tipped rockets
PanzerkampfwagenMachinen - Replaces the MG34 with a light 20mm Cannon.


Schewerer Gustav (Dora)
Type: Superheavy Arty (200FUEL, 1200MP)
Role: Anti-building support.

The Dora would act as Towed-Arty by a Tiger Tank, after the tank towed it, a squad of infantry would set it up in 5 minutes. It would fire 800mm rounds, cable of penetrating the Soviets IS2, with high splash damg, but would take around 1 minute to reload, and a shiz load of time to turn. When wanting to move, it will be have to take 5 mins to re-pack, and then towed off by it's Modified Tiger, which would have no weapons, septet from a weak Hull MG42.

Upgrades: MG08. - Adds a MG08 to the Dora for personal defence.
Ubercharged Sensor: Adds a Bino' armed Gestapo Sniper, who spots targets, increasing Dora's Accuracy. 

[wordsmith]

Panzerwerfer

the Panzerwerfer would act as the German Kats, firing 8 15cm HE Rockets in quick speed, it would be armed with a MG34 MG For self-defence, and could hold a small squad of 3 Troops inside it.

Upgrades: Flammenbolshevik - Gains the ablitty to fire all 8 of now-incendiary tipped rockets
PanzerkampfwagenMachinen - Replaces the MG34 with a light 20mm Cannon.

Panzerwerfer is nice I have it in my concept too but as an upgrade from non-armed Heavy engineer tractor. I think such unit you propose would be quite overpowered.

And from historical point - could panzerwerfer still serve as troop carrier? Where then they put those rockets? And was there any Panzerwerfer version with 20mm cannon? I didn't read about those possibilities...
Post Merge: April 10, 2010, 11:04:18 AM

In general the weapon was called "Gewehrgranatgerät". It can be translated as rifle-granade-lancher. This name was given to several weapons, weapons which had the ability to shoot granades. As a example the widly used K98, the "Granate" was set on the top of the barrel, and the fired round hit it and accelerated it.

Cool work Venoxxis! on research - I didn't know such grenades existed, and I have Deutscher Waffen Enzyklopädie with some very rare infantry wepons

And I would love those in Ostheer, but it could not be OP because how it looks it is like British rifle nades+PIATS together

[Akalonor]

Tagermonf, I'd recommend shushing about the Gustav for now and ever, its been said hundreds of time NO DORA,NO MAUS, NO RATTE, NO LOWE , just wanted to say something before you get yelled at by dozens.

[cephalos]

A few months ago I was reading a book about Warsaw Uprising ( unfortunately I forgot the title) and there were interesting information about German Assault Ingieneers - they were elite unit, desinated to fight in urban warfare.

So I would like to propose:
- Assault Pioneers/Ingieneers
It should be tier 2 unt - they can't build defences, nevertheless they are great in combat.
3 - men squad, armed with MP-43, tough (like PE gren), having abilities to deploy Flammenwerfer ( 75 mun, because they are far more dangerous than wehr pioneers) , throw satchel charge, maybe smoke granades.

This Assault Ingieneers were also famous because they were using a lot of Goliaths, so I think they should have an upgrade:

Goliath Assault Tactics:

150 mun - Assault Ingienners (AI) deploy wired-controlled bomb, ( it shoiuld be fast deployment maybe 6 second, but Player has no control over the Goliath, which is rushing towards the enemy/ target and detonates. To balance it, AI should be immobile during the Goliath Assault, because they controll it. It would reflect the situation when AI prepare their assault beginning from destroying enemy's positions.

What do you think about it?

[Akalonor]

I like it, try to edit it for stats for unit.

[Paciat]

Panzerwerfer
Type: Support Arty. ( 50FUEL, 300MP)
Role: Anti-Building, Anti-Tank.

the Panzerwerfer would act as the German Kats, firing 8 15cm HE Rockets in quick speed, it would be armed with a MG34 MG For self-defence, and could hold a small squad of 3 Troops inside it.

Upgrades: Flammenbolshevik - Gains the ablitty to fire all 8 of now-incendiary tipped rockets
PanzerkampfwagenMachinen - Replaces the MG34 with a light 20mm Cannon.

Sure a cheaper, more mobile, nebel with more firepower and lots of different abilities.
Can it make a sandwich and buy beer too?