Why did Germany lose on the Eastern Front

[Werwolf]

I'd actually seen an interview of an old panther tank commander(he had practically lost all of his teeth )

He himself confessed that the t-34 was a formidable and excellent tank(his actual words were " i had never had seen a tank like this before , the shell we fired just slipped of the front armor , it was the best tank that we had ever faced")

The t-34 used a old design V-12 from a world war 1 plane and was robust and easy to mantain, whereas the german panther had sophisticated and complicated engineering built into it hence it was prone to breakdowns.

I find this all hard to believe. Not only is the Panther commander story far-fetched (Panthers outperformed T-34s in every conceivable way) but the specs are wrong: it was the V-2 engine, not the V-12, and the V-2 was not used in any WW1 planes.

Tico's absolutely right, the T-34 had a lot of very good ideas (sloped armor among them) but it was not the be-all end-all tank, and certainly not the one reason the Soviets reigned supreme at the end of the war.

+1

(Off topic: BTW AbhMkh, I replied to your earlier post re: the patches on the other thread. Cheers )

[maxi1991]

Sure T-34's armor, gun and in later war the reliability were very good but it had bad sights so shots over a long distance were not accurate, it had no radio(that's a huge disadvantage), and  only a 4 man crew(another huge disadvantage)

So we have a tank which was sure insane good in 41' but with the upgunning of the Mark IV it lost it's superiority

[loatty]

just to remind everyone talking about this topic, and those who might join us later on: the question, why did Germany lose on the Eastern Front, must be answered, and discussed, nothing more.... just make your own topic about it. the German forces had both major advantages and disadvantages, just like the Soviets. Although I'd like to say politics had nothing to do with the outcome, its the last thing i find true about the eastern front. however, what happend is unforgivable, and should never been forgotten.... nor underestimated, or changed. what happend on the Eastern Front, why it happend, and how it happend, that's our topic, not only the way both sides treated the civilians in the occupied territories.

just to make it clear: both Germans and Soviets didn't treated the civilians properly, the way i see it: whatever you say, whatever you do, these things happend, and even if you say one side committed the greatest crimes, both sides still committed crimes against humanity.

[Crezth]

just to remind everyone talking about this topic, and those who might join us later on: the question, why did Germany lose on the Eastern Front, must be answered, and discussed, nothing more.... just make your own topic about it. the German forces had both major advantages and disadvantages, just like the Soviets. Although I'd like to say politics had nothing to do with the outcome, its the last thing i find true about the eastern front. however, what happend is unforgivable, and should never been forgotten.... nor underestimated, or changed. what happend on the Eastern Front, why it happend, and how it happend, that's our topic, not only the way both sides treated the civilians in the occupied territories.

just to make it clear: both Germans and Soviets didn't treated the civilians properly, the way i see it: whatever you say, whatever you do, these things happend, and even if you say one side committed the greatest crimes, both sides still committed crimes against humanity.

I spy with my little eye German apologism. The Holocaust was a far, far worse crime than the Soviet purges. You must factor in the motive - to this end, the concentrated removal of an entire ethnic group on the grounds of racial supremacy is dangerous in deed as well as thought. Calculated evil is worse than mindless evil, by and far.

[Seeme]

Thank you Crezth! If it wasnt for my lack of word knowelge, I would of said the same thing!

+1

[AbhMkh]

There comes a program on discovery channel : worlds greatest


so in the series worlds greatest tanks : t-34 is ranked no 4

It shows all in detail abt the t-34 , i think it might be available for download as well on torrentz im not sure of that

"evidence is far better than speculations"

And yes we are offtopic

so i conclude the main reason tht germany lost the war was due to "Herr Adolf Hitler"

cheers

[Tico_1990]

Seeme, I do not claim to be an expert or anything like that, but I do study history at University level, so I like to read a lot about history and such. Also, the show "words greatest" if it is the one I think you mean, creates this list based on a rather small amount of people's opinions.
Also, it only shows basic specs, like "armour thickness" how thick it is is nice, but it also matters what kind of metal it is.

Anyway, on topic, I think that Germany lost the war because of a number of factors, to name a few: the Russian winter, the scorched earth policy, and Hitler's lunatic strategies.

Cheers

[Seeme]

Tico, I wasent trying to offend you in anyway, and if I have, am sorry.

 How can the T-34 be 4th??? With todays modern tanks?
I think the show meant The second world war, right?

[Tico_1990]

I wasn't offended, sorry if I came across at being so
Also, yes, that's one of the problems that I have with that show in conjunction with its name. What it basically show, is a number of good or revolutionary tanks (in terms of design etc.).

Cheers

[AbhMkh]

Yes the program includes both ww2 and modern tanks as well

first is the leopard tank

second is Abram tank

third is some Israeli tank

4th is T-34(the program mentions tht t-34 was what turned soviet russia from an agrarian economy to an industrial superpower)

[Tico_1990]

That Israeli tank is the Merkava tank.
I disagree with the statement about the T-34, it wasn't like they build the tanks, and all of a sudden they had the factories to build them. They already had factories, it's just that they used a great many of them for T-production. So, ok, the the T-34 may have contributed to some production ideas, but saying that it is the reason that Russia turned into an industrial superpower, is overdoing it.
Anyway, hugely off-topic, let's get back to the question of this topic.

[Seeme]

That cant be right...

[RobotronV3]

Really german tanks such as the panther and tiger tanks could destroy MOST Allied tanks with one (tiger ) or two (panther) direct shots although there were many design flaws in the german tanks such as complexity and engine failure. Since the allied tanks were faster the axis tanks where out flanked and out produced.

Do not really on this information Ive just picked it up.

[loatty]

German tanks had an clear advantage in firepower and amourthickness, however... as said (many times, i think) before, the allied tanks did not rely on individual strength. Their balanced designs combined with their 'quantity for quality' doctrines enabled them to deploy overwhelming numbers of tanks against the German panzer's, and forcing the German forces to use all of their available resources and manpower, until they were no longer able to keep up with demands.
And to provide an answer to the T-34 discussion:
The T-34's design, although suffering from great flaws which mainly affected the crew, and therefore the T-34's overall efficiency in battle, included the usage of sloped armour and Christie's suspension, it was a revolutionary design and a great leap in the history of the tank.
Long story, much to discuss... i love to think about many things of WW2... but never try to tell me: 'it would have been better if (...)' or 'i know it was better to (...)

history is about the things the way they happended, please don't doubt their importance or impact.

[vietlord]

the communism mean't mass production, and high numbers. us supplies saved the day many times and wherm was exhausted, loosing experimented soldiers and being too elitists on tech solutions ...

ussr was just too huge for wherm, thanks to mud winter and numerous people

let's play tripleA guys for the " what if" :-)