Why did Germany lose on the Eastern Front

[GodlikeDennis]

I saw a documentry comparing the winter uniforms of Russia and Germany. When the host wore the Russian uniform he was quite comfortable in extreme cold, wasn't particularly bothered at all. In the German one, he felt like he was going to die after 15 minutes or something. He particularly noted that the boots were absolutely awful and his feet actually needed some medical attention.

[Seeme]

Its a good thing that he got hurt with musturd gas, other wise all of russia would be full of it. Hitler refused to do gases becuase thats the one thing he knew was wrong.

[Akalonor]

If Hitler never got hurt with Mustard gas he never wouldve been pulled out ...if he had never been pulled out he wouldnt have discovered the German workers party ....if he had never discovered the Germans workers party he wouldnt have become a Political figure....if he never became a political figure he wouldnt have become chancellor...if he had never become Chancellor he wouldnt have tried taking over Europe.

Of course there is the chance he survives the war and starts the cycle anyways but whatever

[antman311]

I'm tired of reading about Ukraine, which is "joyfully greeted the Germans." It was rare and it is only in the west. A small number of traitors does not give the right to say so about the whole Ukraine.
Millions fought for the Soviets, hundreds/thousands of happily greeted the Germans.

Look up the Holodomor. Everyone loathed Stalin. At first, the Germans WERE liberators, until the Einsatzgruppen came in and started killing people. After, both Stalin and Hitler were hated. You can't disregard the fact that at first, Germans WERE liberators.

If you also notice, the Slavic/Soviet Satellite countries changed sides to whoever was winning.

[Red_Stinger]

I'm tired of reading about Ukraine, which is "joyfully greeted the Germans." It was rare and it is only in the west. A small number of traitors does not give the right to say so about the whole Ukraine.
Millions fought for the Soviets, hundreds/thousands of happily greeted the Germans.

Look up the Holodomor. Everyone loathed Stalin. At first, the Germans WERE liberators, until the Einsatzgruppen came in and started killing people. After, both Stalin and Hitler were hated. You can't disregard the fact that at first, Germans WERE liberators.

If you also notice, the Slavic/Soviet Satellite countries changed sides to whoever was winning.

I dont think so. Germans have perhaps been regarded as ''liberators'' by some people, but they werent liberators at all. Think that germans came with ideas like ''lebensraum'', ''untermenschen'' and so! Even the stalinian USSR wasnt that racist. The purpose of german army, was to exterminate the population and to enslave those who resisted. It was a criminal agression, and almost every german soldier was aware of the real purpose of Heer. Thats why immediatly after the beginning of the war, german unit commit atrocities, even before the einsatzgruppen came, and officers never punished them.

So,even if germans were regarded as liberators by some people, they were NOT, even compared to stalin's dictatorship! Russians, ukrainians and other slavic people never liked stalin (after all he was one of the ''best'' dictator ever ), but they were patriots, or had other motivation to resist.

[maxi1991]

I'm tired of reading about Ukraine, which is "joyfully greeted the Germans." It was rare and it is only in the west. A small number of traitors does not give the right to say so about the whole Ukraine.
Millions fought for the Soviets, hundreds/thousands of happily greeted the Germans.

Look up the Holodomor. Everyone loathed Stalin. At first, the Germans WERE liberators, until the Einsatzgruppen came in and started killing people. After, both Stalin and Hitler were hated. You can't disregard the fact that at first, Germans WERE liberators.

If you also notice, the Slavic/Soviet Satellite countries changed sides to whoever was winning.

I dont think so. Germans have perhaps been regarded as ''liberators'' by some people, but they werent liberators at all. Think that germans came with ideas like ''lebensraum'', ''untermenschen'' and so! Even the stalinian USSR wasnt that racist. The purpose of german army, was to exterminate the population and to enslave those who resisted. It was a criminal agression, and almost every german soldier was aware of the real purpose of Heer. Thats why immediatly after the beginning of the war, german unit commit atrocities, even before the einsatzgruppen came, and officers never punished them.

So,even if germans were regarded as liberators by some people, they were NOT, even compared to stalin's dictatorship! Russians, ukrainians and other slavic people never liked stalin (after all he was one of the ''best'' dictator ever ), but they were patriots, or had other motivation to resist.

German soldiers was punished in many cases for atrocities. Not like the Red Army were no punishment was made for rape and murder.

[Werwolf]

Red_Stinger, I respect your opinions regarding the so-called "liberation" of Eastern Europe, however;

Even the stalinian USSR wasnt that racist.

Wrong. They were even worse. Aside from being Anti-Semitic, the main proponents of Bolshevism were also obsessed with the elimination of social class (i.e. persecution, exile and mass liquidations of the aristocracy/nobility, educated scholars, Officer Corps, ethnic minorities; destruction and looting of cultural artifacts, etc.) and religion (i.e. persecution and exile of religious leaders and clergy, destruction of many places of worship, etc.). These were even far beyond the scope of the Einsatzkommando's operations.

The purpose of german army, was to exterminate the population and to enslave those who resisted. It was a criminal agression, and almost every german soldier was aware of the real purpose of Heer. Thats why immediatly after the beginning of the war, german unit commit atrocities, even before the einsatzgruppen came, and officers never punished them.

Non sequitur. Again, you are talking about specific SD branches such as the Einsatzgruppen or the Gestapo, and quite possibly the Allgemeine-SS stationed in the camps... but definitely not the Wehrmacht or even the Waffen-SS, which were first and foremost front-line combat elements (some did commit war crimes of course, but war crimes are always present in every war, on ALL sides). Most front-line troops had either not heard, had only some vague/incomplete knowledge about, or had full knowledge/awareness but had no real choice nor power to stop the atrocities being committed. In fact, many of the ones who actually knew about the wretched "Barbarossa Order" were executed after the failed assassination attempts against the Führer.

Hitler's statements were mostly rhetorical and focused mostly on the expulsion of "Untermenschen"; in fact, Himmler was the real shadow power behind the Final Solution---bringing it to fruition by actually implementing it on a grand scale using methods which sometimes appalled even the Führer himself. It was Himmler who ultimately decided that the "elimination" of the said undesirables was more expedient than mere "expulsion".

...and as for "punishment": Officers, Wehrmacht Feldgendarmes, and SS-Feldpolizei were often more than happy to court-martial or even shoot Soldaten who went out of line/showed signs of "defeatism".

Just some food for thought. Cheers 
Post Merge: July 19, 2010, 03:44:22 AM

I'm tired of reading about Ukraine, which is "joyfully greeted the Germans." It was rare and it is only in the west. A small number of traitors does not give the right to say so about the whole Ukraine.
Millions fought for the Soviets, hundreds/thousands of happily greeted the Germans.

Look up the Holodomor. Everyone loathed Stalin. At first, the Germans WERE liberators, until the Einsatzgruppen came in and started killing people. After, both Stalin and Hitler were hated. You can't disregard the fact that at first, Germans WERE liberators.

If you also notice, the Slavic/Soviet Satellite countries changed sides to whoever was winning.

I dont think so. Germans have perhaps been regarded as ''liberators'' by some people, but they werent liberators at all. Think that germans came with ideas like ''lebensraum'', ''untermenschen'' and so! Even the stalinian USSR wasnt that racist. The purpose of german army, was to exterminate the population and to enslave those who resisted. It was a criminal agression, and almost every german soldier was aware of the real purpose of Heer. Thats why immediatly after the beginning of the war, german unit commit atrocities, even before the einsatzgruppen came, and officers never punished them.

So,even if germans were regarded as liberators by some people, they were NOT, even compared to stalin's dictatorship! Russians, ukrainians and other slavic people never liked stalin (after all he was one of the ''best'' dictator ever ), but they were patriots, or had other motivation to resist.

German soldiers was punished in many cases for atrocities. Not like the Red Army were no punishment was made for rape and murder.

+1 exactly. In fact, many Soviet officers condoned such acts as a retaliation for the misery caused by the war in the Rodina. Soviet troops, the majority of whom had not traveled outside their own country and were unfamiliar with the luxuries which were prevalent in the West, saw it as an opportunity to help themselves to those same luxuries of which they were deprived.

However, the Allies won the war, so many of those among them who had committed crimes were exonerated (except for a few unlucky souls), unlike the Germans.

[maxi1991]

German soldiers was punished in many cases for atrocities. Not like the Red Army were no punishment was made for rape and murder.

Edit: Does sure not apply for every soldier, there was light and shadow on both sides. But i'm sick and tired of this Bad Germans - Glorious Soviets thing.

[Paciat]

But i'm sick and tired of this Bad Germans - Glorious Soviets thing.

Its III Reich - civililized exterminators and Soviets - scum in Poland.

[Seeme]

Germany was worse then Soveits and I dont feel like expaining why in a 3 paragraph post, so am only doing 2

Any stop being on the poor Nazi side and stop trying to act of smart and a know it all, even though the Soveits did horrible war crimes, it was not as bad as Germany.

Its the truth, look it up before trying to be a smarty on the fourm. Fine, dont belive me, just dont tell everyone you a expert on the history of ww2.

[Blackbishop]

Germany was worse then Soveits and I dont feel like expaining why in a 3 paragraph post, so am only doing 2

Any stop being on the poor Nazi side and stop trying to act of smart and a know it all, even though the Soveits did horrible war crimes, it was not as bad as Germany.

Its the truth, look it up before trying to be a smarty on the fourm. Fine, dont belive me, just dont tell everyone you a expert on the history of ww2.

In your 2 paragraphs, you fail to explain why "Germany was worse then Soveits", just clarify that winner writes history. But yeah, especially after the war, soviets soldiers whom had to be punished weren't at all. It was a war, shit happened everywhere, we can't classify neither Germany nor SU to be worse than the other.

[Werwolf]

Germany was worse then Soveits and I dont feel like expaining why in a 3 paragraph post, so am only doing 2

Any stop being on the poor Nazi side and stop trying to act of smart and a know it all, even though the Soveits did horrible war crimes, it was not as bad as Germany.

Its the truth, look it up before trying to be a smarty on the fourm. Fine, dont belive me, just dont tell everyone you a expert on the history of ww2.

I'm on neither side. I've already had my share of skinhead jerks and unapologetic commie douchebags, thank you very much. From an objective point of view, each side was as bad as the other...two failed extremist ideologies trying to cancel each other out, with a lot of innocent civilians caught in the middle. The funny thing is, no matter how many horrible things would happen in every conflict, "moral ascendancy" would always be bestowed on the victors.

Furthermore, I never claimed to be an expert on anything. I was merely offering my two cents. A dissenting opinion, if you will. 

[Red_Stinger]

Werwolf, how can you respect my opinion about the liberation of europe, since I've never tell you about it? And there is no need for sarcastic word like ''so-called'', which prove btw you dont have any respect for my opinion whatever is it.

And yes, Germany was way more racist than stalinist USSR, since the elimination of a class dont necessary need to kill people. However Germany's purpose was to slaughter millions of people, and to create a Europe where all country woulds be a slave of Germany. And if NKVD killed certainly more people than germans in USSR, its probably because they had far more time to do this. Think about this.

Again, germans troops committed atrocities in all the East. Not only Einsatzgruppen. Saying that few war-crimes were committed by germans is Negationism, nothing less ( should I remember you that 20 millions civilians died? oh sure there are victims of soviets troops!). And germans were NEVER being judged by any tribunal, since the whole army was in USSR to kill and enslave everybody. Soviets were rarely judged for war-crimes, but they were, since they didnt fought any ''sub-humans'' or others. And thoses who committed rape in Berlin, right after the victory, were judged and many of them were executed.

Edit: Does sure not apply for every soldier, there was light and shadow on both sides. But i'm sick and tired of this Bad Germans - Glorious Soviets thing.

And I'm sick of germanophiles who are obliged to glorify germans. For many people in this forum, it seem that germans were noble soldier, who didnt make any atrocities/war-crimes, and who bravely fought the soviet agressor, and who were more brave, more strong... and such. Please, stop this guy, and lets come back to a rationnal discussion. I'm not a germanophobist, I think germany is a great country like many others ( yes, like russia for example!), but some things said here are crazy.

Like you said guys, Cheers, and hope thats not the beginning of a flame war.

[Tico_1990]

On topic: Germany lost because of a number of things. First of all, there was the rather interesting use of troop redeployment that Hitler did. Second of all, there was the Russian winter and the accompanying problems (like the oil in certain tanks to freeze up).Than there is the fact that the Germans had to divide their soldiers over three fronts (Atlantic wall, Africa/Italy, and Soviet front). Also, the German industry was being bombed night and day which surely hampered resupplying of the army. Lastly, I'd say that the logistics were hampered enormously firstly by the Russian scorched earth policy, and secondly by the long distances to friendly territory.

As for the whole "Germans were the devil and Soviet soldiers were angels" debate. In my opinion, both were bad, saying that Hitler was way worse than Stalin is in my opinion stupid. It was Stalin who said: "a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is just a statistic".
Were the Germans the first to commit atrocities, honestly, I don't know. Even if they were, than the pay back which the soviets gave when they were in Germany isn't any less wrong. The defence that says: "they did it first so it was logical that we did it later even though we knew it was bad" even shows that the standards of both groups were low. I'd even go as far and say that it makes the Soviets slightly worse, since they obviously show that they understand that what they did was bad and they did the same thing as the soldiers which they all claimed to be so bad.
I'd say that so far, I've been able to only find one valid reason to say that Hitler (not the German army) was worse than Stalin (not the Soviet army), and that reason is as follows: Hitler took the killing of people to an industrial level, his death camps were basically factories designed to kill people in the most effective way. As far as I know, Stalin did not have any death factories, just work camps.
As for the Germans being worse than the Soviets or vice versa discussion, if you're talking about the armies, I'd say they are equally bad.

Cheers

[maxi1991]

Werwolf, how can you respect my opinion about the liberation of europe, since I've never tell you about it? And there is no need for sarcastic word like ''so-called'', which prove btw you dont have any respect for my opinion whatever is it.

And yes, Germany was way more racist than stalinist USSR, since the elimination of a class dont necessary need to kill people. However Germany's purpose was to slaughter millions of people, and to create a Europe where all country woulds be a slave of Germany. And if NKVD killed certainly more people than germans in USSR, its probably because they had far more time to do this. Think about this.

Again, germans troops committed atrocities in all the East. Not only Einsatzgruppen. Saying that few war-crimes were committed by germans is Negationism, nothing less ( should I remember you that 20 millions civilians died? oh sure there are victims of soviets troops!). And germans were NEVER being judged by any tribunal, since the whole army was in USSR to kill and enslave everybody. Soviets were rarely judged for war-crimes, but they were, since they didnt fought any ''sub-humans'' or others. And thoses who committed rape in Berlin, right after the victory, were judged and many of them were executed.

Edit: Does sure not apply for every soldier, there was light and shadow on both sides. But i'm sick and tired of this Bad Germans - Glorious Soviets thing.

And I'm sick of germanophiles who are obliged to glorify germans. For many people in this forum, it seem that germans were noble soldier, who didnt make any atrocities/war-crimes, and who bravely fought the soviet agressor, and who were more brave, more strong... and such. Please, stop this guy, and lets come back to a rationnal discussion. I'm not a germanophobist, I think germany is a great country like many others ( yes, like russia for example!), but some things said here are crazy.

Like you said guys, Cheers, and hope thats not the beginning of a flame war.

Dear Red_Stinger,

it ain't about playing down germany's crimes. On both sides most soldiers were only fighting for their country, but there were also black sheeps on both sides. And in this Forum in my eyes some people(i don't mean specially you, it's more some other people) demonize ALL Germans as murderers and at the same time they only say how great Soviet Union was. I'm not germanophile i only want that things are objective(don't know if this word makes sense in english).

Edit:
Btw it doesn't matter if stalin or hitler killed more. Slaughter of Millions is Slaughter of Millions. I mean if one killed xMillions and the other killed yMillions it doesn't matter that much, in this scale of numbers there is no difference about who was how bad.