So I guess the AI for non-Soviet units was changed too?

[bSword]

In EF, when I try playing a skirmish against the AI without Soviets, like Wehrmacht versus US or PE versus US, the AI is really different than in the unmodded game.  The US AI will quickly put out infantry and Heavy Weapons Center and start spamming MG's and infantry and put out some mortars too.  In the unmodded game, the US AI would just pick one or the other and wouldn't spam as many units.

How extensive was the non-Soviet AI changed, if at all?  It's really different, quite a bit more challenging and is sort of frustrating.

[Jagged]

On the flip side: Would you rather they roll over and die without a fight?

Hook up with a friend online and beat back that multi-approach demon!!

[Zerstörer]

AI has been extensively modified for all faction creating amuch more fun and challenging gameplay 

[bSword]

Ok.  It's a little too frustrating to play Hard, which I can just about always beat on the unmodded game, now there's too many units being thrown at me.  Normal in EF is better, I can actually beat it but it's a lot more challenging in a good way, the AI puts out a lot more units than usual and is a bit trickier.

Anyway I was wondering if it was just me or if changes had been made.

[sweeten2213]

Thanks for the support there, Zer 

The AI has been changed and is more challenging (mainly because it's much smarter).

I don't mean to sound like a jerk and I hope this doesn't come off like that, but I'm quite confused about something...

People in several threads have mentioned that they used to being able to beat the top levels (ie hard or expert) with the vanilla AI and now they can't and their frustrated.

Is it like a testosterone thing to not want to lower the level your playing against?  Do you guys actually enjoy just "comp-stomping" and beating the heck of an idiotic AI opponent?

I've designed this AI as I have for the AI for my own mod and several other mods with this in mind...

I want to give non-online players and online players alike something to work towards when playing the AI.

Can't beat the hard ai now - play against normal for now and then try hard later - it will be an accomplishment.

All you online players play online for a challenge and a good game - you don't want to just walk all over the other player - what fun is that?

So the AI is improved to allow that for offline as well.

I guess I just don't understand the "I can't beat the AI on level x anymore and I'm frustrated" thing

[bSword]

Well for one thing I think people weren't expecting the non-Soviet AI to be changed, I read all the promos and release notes for the game and didn't see anything about it, so people used to the status quo are probably getting confused and frustrated.

And people play computer games so they can win, so it's kind of annoying maybe to have the challenge bar raised in what was already a pretty difficult and unpredictable AI (at least on expert). 

The main problem I have with the vanilla AI is that on some maps the units seem to get confused and just sit around at the bottom of the map instead of going out to capture points or attack my units.  Lyon 1v1 is a good place to see this.  Maybe the new AI will reduce this though I see the AI sometimes do this on the new EF maps, like at the bottom of the Minsk map.


Anyway one good thing is that the Brit AI is actually competent now...in a 1v1 game in vanilla COH they just put out a few units and then let themselves get slaughtered, even on Expert.  On 2v2 or larger games they tend to be a bit more competent.  I just played a Wehr v Hard AI British 1v1 skirmish and it was quite tough.  Mainly it was just spamming me with infantry then later on tank units, but it was definitely tougher and more fun than the vanilla AI.

[sweeten2213]

And people play computer games so they can win, so it's kind of annoying maybe to have the challenge bar raised in what was already a pretty difficult and unpredictable AI (at least on expert).

Maybe that's where I differ - I play computer games for the challenge.  If I reach a point where I can no longer lose, I stop playing and move on to something else.

And as far as expert, I designed the AI to be difficult at all times.  Expert, no matter how good you are, will always be a challenge.  And, I guess referring to my point in the first paragraph, if you can beat expert (the highest level of difficulty) almost all the time, what else is there?  There's nowhere else to go from there. 

Expert was also designed to challenge any players - hence the name expert   It's like designing a level of opponent for professional athletes - they're the best in the world and "experts" at their craft.  If they were to play all their games against a really good high school team, I would imagine they get bored easily after repeated and with no effort whatsoever beating the crap out of them.  So expert is designed to challenge ANY player - no matter how good

At least that's how I think - maybe I'm in the minority

[Jagged]

I asked this in another thread but are you sure you are playing 1.04?


On similiar note, I did just finish playing 3 comp stomps (3 different degrees of AI) and it appears the Soviet AI spams at the start but has no end game. It seems to send hordes of men in overwhelm fashion then it's 'end game' is non stop studebakers or patriots that rush to the front lines. 

[sweeten2213]

@ Jagged - that is a bug where the AI tends to spam call in units.  The only way to stop it is hard caps which would apply to the AI and human alike.

And I'm sure if we were to hard cap them at a level where the AI could still excel (i.e. say 2 for Partisans), that would open a HUGE can of worms and a bunch of other threads complaining about that.

Also, another note on my "perspective"...

I am 36 years old soon to be 37.  My first video game was Pong back in 1970's.  I played for years before their was such thing as "online" play - it was all more or less SP for say 25 or so years of my gaming years.  Therefore, I grew up playing against the AI in games (and honestly still don't play online).

I decided to learn how to code the AI in CoH because for all those years, I would stop playing a game when the AI was no longer a challenge.  I love the concept of CoH and decided to learn how improve the AI to extend the lifespan for me as well as learned how to mod in general for the same reason.

So - again - maybe I'm just different and an old man

[funnyme]

Hi,

@sweeten -welcome to the old men community ... , Youngness in heart is what counts ...

regards
funnyme

[NitroHaze]

lol...45yrs young here.  Been gaming longer than most of these kids been alive!  Great work on the AI Sweeten.  It has made me a better player.  Keep the faith.  There are people out there who feel as you do.

[UltimateTobi]

18 years young here, still like your Add-On and the AI, it's more challenging.

Kind regards, Ultimate!

[bSword]

Yes I'm playing 1.04.

Hook up with a friend online and beat back that multi-approach demon!!

I would, and have been playing EF with a friend recently, but unfortunately now it seems like every game we play, after a while our connection drops...I get a message saying he dropped out and the AI took over, and he gets a message saying that I dropped and the AI took over for me.  We are still in the game, but it's like our connection to one another dropped.  Then we have tried playing the unmodded COH and we get the same thing after a certain while.  I asked about this on the bug report forum section but nobody has responded and I'm not sure if this is a game issue, a Relic issue, or a connection issue.  I'm not on a router and have a direct link to cable internet, and he's directly on an ethernet connection at his college.  Is anyone getting this issue?  It seems to happen when we do 2v2 against the AI.

[Flyboy]

I have been playing EF with a friend recently, but unfortunately now it seems like every game we play, after a while our connection drops...I get a message saying he dropped out and the AI took over, and he gets a message saying that I dropped and the AI took over for me.  We are still in the game, but it's like our connection to one another dropped.  Then we have tried playing the unmodded COH and we get the same thing after a certain while.  I asked about this on the bug report forum section but nobody has responded and I'm not sure if this is a game issue, a Relic issue, or a connection issue.  I'm not on a router and have a direct link to cable internet, and he's directly on an ethernet connection at his college.  Is anyone getting this issue?  It seems to happen when we do 2v2 against the AI.

Hey! That kept happening to me and my friend too! We couldn't get to the bottom of what it was, eventually it just stopped and we could play online again.

Can't really say what it is though 

[bSword]

Someone on another forum suggested it might be an antivirus program causing the connections to get dropped, but we both turned our AV programs off and it didn't help.  It's pretty random, like we got through one game fine, then tried another and immediately got dropped, then did another and were fine until the VP counter got to around 25 and we were just about to win, and we dropped.  Annoying!