Soviet tank tweaks? POLITE disscusion and ideas welcome

[SauerKRAUT]

The soviet tanks REALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY got nerfed, the IS2 especially. By RL standards, it had more armor than tigers or panthers and the gun was better in all ways but reload speed due to 2 part loading which is demonstrated in the game at least. I have seen the change log and effects in game and I watched an IS2 get easily wiped by a couple schreks. It seems the schreks actually end up doing more damage than tank shell half the time and with a vetted tiger with (IRL) less armor it just tickles the health bar on the frontal arc. 

Now, you might say "but that is because it is a vet tiger, duh!" IS-2s were manned almost exclusivly by elite guards units, you would not trust your best tanks with a farm hand would you? As well I have seen some very bad shots from the IS-2 and with the long reload and minimal (comparative) damage and weakened armor is a probable death for the motherland. The IS-2s gun also packed a large HE shell that was actually better for killing slant armor vehicles like panther and would often crumple machinery from shockwave alone that caused turrets and tracks to stop working and often knocked splinters in the crew compartments and even breech the hull catastrophically not to mention the massive anti infantry and structure capibilties (I have observed a slight AOE). This is why it was classified as a breakthrough tank, meant to take AT head on and blow defenses to shreds altough typically not for close infantry fighting.

A cost increase to implicate any of this might be getting a little on the silly side, maybe upgrades in ammo somewhere for vet? The t-34s now are alright except for the 85. A P4 does more damage to it than it can deal back, even non vet and the 85mm gun was far superior as well as armor in the early models of p4. I suggest slight cost increase with a damage one but the accuracy I feel is sound with the skill of the the typical crew then.

I hope I can get more of history buff reaction out of this rather than some 12 year olds definition of over powered... any ideas on comprimises and ways of implicating parts or all of these ideas are welcomed. 

[hgghg4]

Actually the IS-2 did not have more armor then the Tiger but the IS-3 did, both carried the same cannon though. I honestly think that the IS-2 is very very well balanced... 1v1 it can beat almost every other production tank out there... (exception being the Vetted Panthers) Panzers can't breach the front armor and PaKs have a hard time dealing with them after the first 3 shots.... I honestly don't see a reason to change the IS-2

[mike b]

Panzerschreks and panzerfausts could penetrate 200mm of armour so they should do a lot of damage.

[hgghg4]

but for the sake of balance they don't otherwise the Panzershreck (210mm pen.) would be the best and panzerfaust (150mm pen.) would be a really quick counter and people would spam Volks

[SauerKRAUT]

Still even zooks and picked up schreks dont even tickle either panthers or tigers of vet

[hgghg4]

The Bazooka sucked against german armor, it was noted that the GIs would aim for the soft spots because they new a frontal attack with a zooka was suicide... a few Panzershrecks where used I am sure but I don't know of any occurrences

[BDNeon]

I say the IS2 is at a good point. If it was left as it was in the launch version, the mod would probably be dead. It was already dead multiplayer wise before the first balance patch, because no one wanted to play axis at all, because there was no goddamn way to counter IS2s.

Do we REALLY want to go back to that? IS2 is finally fixed, let's keep it that way.

[Zerstörer]

IS 1.00 was ludicrous. it had 1500 hpts almost the same as a freaking jagdpanther.
Now I fail to see any valid complaints about it because, it has the same armour as a pershing but 110 more hitpoints...400 more hitpoints than a Panther and a very meaty gun which in a way is a supped up version of the 90mmHVAP!. In most respects it IS like a Panther/Pesrhing so what more can you ask??
T34/85-the envy of all other factions. Its faster,cheap,better armed,better armoured than PzIV/Sherman/Hetzer/Stug/Cromwell. What else could you possibly want?? All the other tanks have to reach vet3 to come close to competing with it. And unlike all other allied tanks it has a chance vs a shreck blob
SUs have a mother*** of a gun but don't work well on their own(hint hint)

The t-34s now are alright except for the 85. A P4 does more damage to it than it can deal back

Replay or it didn't happen! I've tested it extensively. If you keep frontal armour on the PzIV (which is easy as T34 is alot faster) the T34/85 will always win. If you don't micro and let the vetted PzIV get to the position where you're exchanging flank shots, then it might Just win

[SauerKRAUT]

Ahh i feel vindicated thanks guys

[hgghg4]

I love the T-34/85 and use it more then the IS-2s so much better for the cost imo

[Artillerist]

IS-2 is much slower than Tiger (but how - it had better engine and was more than 10 tons lighter).

Also, fore rate is extremly low (okey, its correct - but why 1/2 of IS-2 shells still dont hit even side armor of Panther and just flew aside?), so usually german tank could hit IS-2 3-4 times, and IS-2 can hit some body only 1-2 time...

Also - Pz.IV, Pz.V, Tiger and Konigtiger had deadly MULTIPLE mashineguns, wish is extremly effective v.s. infantry. IS-2 in this case is a sitting duck.

And the last thing: IS-2 is a heavy tank, like Tiger/KonigTiger. It must be doctrine tank for 100%.

P.S. pls correct AI pathfinding of IS-2 - it is extremly stupid...

[BDNeon]

AI pathfinding is Relics domain, not the EF team. You want to complain about engine related issues, post on the Relic forums. This forum is for issues specific to to the mod.

[hgghg4]

Why? Why should it be a call on tank? It is just as strong as a Panther with comparable costs

[Artillerist]

Medium (main combat tanks)
T-34/Pz.IV/Sherman

Heavy tanks (specific separate heavy support batallions and regiments)
IS-2/Pz.VI/Pershing

Pz.V is vetween them, stronger than T-34 but weaker than IS-2. It is different level between that two. Even for Tiger IS-2 was though opponent.  Panther for IS-2 was "baby, come to papa ". Did You ever read IS-2 main gun test?

[hgghg4]

its probably a propaganda tool, it was a HE shell not an AP shell so it wouldn't have gone through the tank