One Hell Of A Concept - Venoxxis' Ostheer Concept

[Versedhorison]

have a cry everyone. This is a fun and balanced game. you are not gonna see any of these 'super (stupid) weapons' such as railway guns, super heavy tanks or other ridiculous weapons like sound cannons or allied doomwheels. Weapons like these don't work. They did not work in the 'reel werld' it was conclusively proven and they would not work in this game. Ridiculous weapons wouldn't work and they would break the balance of the game. Even King Tigers which I really like only barely work in this game and you will not see anything bigger than this. what you should be commenting about are cool units that you want to see in the ostheer like stukas, ME262's, panzerwerfers or more tiger tanks. These weapons did work and can work in this game and are probably way cooler than any super weapon people keep cringing about. I'd personally like to see anyone who goes on about these stupid weapons to get a warning from the moderators, its over okay I'd like to see this retarded 'discussion' ended its pathetic. You ain't gonna see this crap in the game so wake up and get in line with reality.

Rant mode off.

[ThGermanElite]

Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PMHowever though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...

[Paciat]

the spy; dont love this unit because it is a freaky op unit. As soviet or allied i would get crazy when just one guy do the work of a lot of guys. He plants bombs, camouflages himself, builds a "camouflaged observerbuiling" ,plants mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades...so in a short sentence: He can everything u want! Winning the game just by right using ONE unit...i dont like this ( also from historical view ).

I started the spy topic so ill try to defend it.

Lord Rommel said: "He can everything u want!"
Sure, youre the Developer. But I never saw a spy carrying mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades at the same time. Not even James Bond.
I wouldnt add a counter sniper ability as well.

The main problem with a spy is that he cannot fight. He cant call in arti, throw sticky bombs, use smoke and snipe! like sniper ace can. Also his HP is only 66% of a regular sniper.

As a doctrinal call-in he will be more expensive than 340MP (regural sniper).

PE has a non doctrinal vampire halftrack that produces goliats, divers supply, spots infantry on a minimap and nobody uses it.

[Raider217]

The Brummbar should be a call in unit and why is there no Stug III

Also i agree that having the ME 262's, Maus, Ratte and Monster just doesnt work they either werent used in large enough numbers, never used in battle or in the case of the Ratte and Monster never even left the design stage

[Venoxxis]

Thank you for your replays guys. Really helpfully. I will try to answer the questions

The Brummbar should be a call in unit and why is there no Stug III

The Brummbär brings a lot of originality to the Ostheer, thats the first reason.
You are probably thinking that a mass inf. killer shouldnt be buildable, but what about the US' croc than?
So a expensive brummbär is OK, this way it wouldnt be spamable neither.
Thinking about masses of these blowing away your buildings? think about brits cheap AVRE. just took three of them and drive in your enemys base with some ammo. 1 minute left and he is gone.

This way, i mean thinking about balance this tank is a good one.


The Stug III is simply to similiar to the Stug IV of the wehr.
These tanks are often prodoced, but they dont fit in CoH thinking about gameplay.
Historical they were usefull, but ingame you can defeat only early game tanks with it.

there is no usefull spot in the Ostheer to get it in.

But if you got a usefull spot for the ME just tell it me

the spy; dont love this unit because it is a freaky op unit. As soviet or allied i would get crazy when just one guy do the work of a lot of guys. He plants bombs, camouflages himself, builds a "camouflaged observerbuiling" ,plants mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades...so in a short sentence: He can everything u want! Winning the game just by right using ONE unit...i dont like this ( also from historical view ).

I started the spy topic so ill try to defend it.

So wherefore should the spy than be usefull Paciat?
taking out his fighting abilities would make him kinda impotent.
Give me ya ideas and i will include them if they fit well

Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PMHowever though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...

First of all, thank you.

But i agree with you, speaking english the Sergeant should be the better use. but maybe we should ask Lord Rommel to be sure what fits best

hopefully he will see that.

[Paciat]

So wherefore should the spy than be usefull Paciat?
taking out his fighting abilities would make him kinda impotent.
Give me ya ideas and i will include them if they fit well

Booby traps, binoculars, camo and demolitions charges. If he grabs a shreck from the battlefield he can be dangerous but when called in he only has a luger (something like a captain in enemy territory).
Maybe he could also construct something like Radio Triangulation Detectors.

In other words a spy will spy.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

[...]

Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PMHowever though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...

First of all, thank you.

But i agree with you, speaking english the Sergeant should be the better use. but maybe we should ask Lord Rommel to be sure what fits best

hopefully he will see that.

Well, the commissar was a political officer. The Wehrmacht defend itself till the end against including such an officer at the Wehrmacht because one of the main ideas of the Wehrmacht was political neutrality and so such an officer hadnt fit in the Wehrmacht.

But what for a function u want to attach to an officer?
The Wehrmacht had the best sub officer corps ( Unteroffizierskorps ) of all armys. So when u search officers then i would search at this ranks ( Feldwebel, Leutnant, Hauptmann and so on ).

[Venoxxis]

@ Paciat;
Im ok with that "passiv" kind of spy u are suggesting, i will include the spy just like that.
It was ur idea.

@ LordRommel;
I was searching for a table of the wehrmacht, which showed wo controlled who and who was on top and so on.. but i didnt find it this time. I think it was somewhere at the us wiki.
But i think the Feldwebel fits pretty good in that role with his rank, doesnt he?

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Well. The Feldwebel commanded a "Zug" so a group of around 10-20 soldiers. In special situations company commanders ordered Feldwebeln to make counterattacks or recon missions and so on.
So the rank was relay flexible and german army had a high number of such sub officers.
The Feldwebel or other sub officers are the key for the german combat effective.
Good sub officers - good battle performance ( when u need a small equation )

Here is a small table for u: CLICK!

[Panzer4life]

Now, since aot of this page has been about what should be included and what shouldn't, i will say this; even though seeing a Karl-Gerat would be awesome, it be be decimated after one shot. So, instead of that, how about this gun?

It is called the 15cm sFH 18, it was used by the Germans. While not as good as the Soviet 122mm A-19 guns (range 20km as oppose to 7 km), it had a bigger shell. So it could be built by the Pioneers of the Ostheer and then be moved by half track quickly so to avoid counter battery fire, or by foot for the instance you don't have a half-track.
Post Merge: March 11, 2010, 07:16:58 PMok, i am a dumbass. i forgot to re-look on your original concept Venoxxis so i put in a unit that was already in there. i deserve to fell like a dumbass.

[Paciat]

It is called the 15cm sFH 18, it was used by the Germans. While not as good as the Soviet 122mm A-19 guns (range 20km as oppose to 7 km), it had a bigger shell. So it could be built by the Pioneers of the Ostheer and then be moved by half track quickly so to avoid counter battery fire, or by foot for the instance you don't have a half-track.

Those guns were too big to move "quickly so to avoid counter battery fire". It probably took an hour set up this gun. If you want a mobile gun like a nebelwerfer than how about 7,5cm leIG18. It would be great in killing russian snipers and mortar teams. Accurate, low damage but short cooldown as well.

[Versedhorison]

The Brummbar should be a call in unit and why is there no Stug III

Also i agree that having the ME 262's, Maus, Ratte and Monster just doesnt work they either werent used in large enough numbers, never used in battle or in the case of the Ratte and Monster never even left the design stage

I disagree on Me262's. they were extremely effective and used in large(ish) numbers for German standards that late in the war although not enough to change the war.

[Venoxxis]

@Lord Rommel;
Thanks this is what i expected
Feldwebel added.

@Panzer4live;
The Karlgerät is surely the most extraordinary vehicle of my concept. some hate it, some love it. Just like the ISU maybe.
But something has be a bit crazy in the Ostheer last but not least, if you got me right.

The sFH 18 is included already right
also, it would be movearound able, it would be a firebase.
The Artillary Warefare Doctrine is focused on right that warefare with his art. truck. -> having a forward base with firebases to get solid art support.

@Paciat;
the leIG18 is in already as well

@Versed;
What do you disagree to?
the Me being used in the mod?

or that it was a fairly seldom used plane?

[Versedhorison]

no I really want ME262's in the mod, I am disagreeing and pointing out the poor points of raider217's statement on Me262's.

[ThGermanElite]

[...]

Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PMHowever though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...

First of all, thank you.

But i agree with you, speaking english the Sergeant should be the better use. but maybe we should ask Lord Rommel to be sure what fits best

hopefully he will see that.

Well, the commissar was a political officer. The Wehrmacht defend itself till the end against including such an officer at the Wehrmacht because one of the main ideas of the Wehrmacht was political neutrality and so such an officer hadnt fit in the Wehrmacht.

But what for a function u want to attach to an officer?
The Wehrmacht had the best sub officer corps ( Unteroffizierskorps ) of all armys. So when u search officers then i would search at this ranks ( Feldwebel, Leutnant, Hauptmann and so on ).

I know that, but having officers leading JUST a fire team of 3-5 is silly, they lead squads (2 fire teams) or platoons (4 squads)(depending on the time of the war), so thats why I am trying to explain that having officers placed in single squads sounds kinda off. They had sergeants up to the rank of Hauptfeldwebel commanding fire teams of soldiers on the field. Im just saying, just dont make it officers, more like Seasoned Sergeants......