Artillery,Trenches,Bunkers.

[PSIHOPAT]

What is the opinion of community about new models for artillery,bunkers and trenches?

The idea is to give even more strategic and tactical options and requirement,and liberty for decision in adapting and creating personalized warfare stile.

Having at disposal many types of bunkers and trenches for infantry and artillery,with variation in size,cost and health,will make unsupported or not calculated direct assault a simple suicide.


If will be made new models for trenches,will make them more important,appropriate from reality.At this time we have just small line trench.New models can be "T trench", "L trench","S trench","F trench".F trench can have two models.One type can be one used just for infantry,and other for infantry plus artillery.

Strong defensive positions will make every game to take longer time,and elaborated long time tactics and strategy  will show the result and winner will be just person with less mistakes or good plan =>the one who truly deserve victory.Now victory or defeat can happen or come fast after one lucky artillery hit who kill more than half of the enemy army,and unlucky person will be unable to hold the line until reinforcements will come.

Also with number of models for artillery almost equal with infantry or tanks(4-5 models for each faction),with varied abilities,power,caliber,specific purpose, cost,will be nothing than a excellent improvement.All MG and artillery can have ability to entrench himself with cost of manpower,if they choose to stay separate from special "F or T trenches"  used for mixed units.

At this moment all battles are rush and harass,in guerila fights.Even after making what i suggested, harassing and guerila fights,flanking maneuvers at small or big scale,infiltrations,snipers,air support will be availeble or even more =>necessary.

Defensive lines will be serious problem.Assault will need careful analysis and calculations,for successful breaking through enough remaining for continuing attack.If plans will be wrong,assault will stop at the line,or will have little power for advance or defend against counter attack.

Also all cover must have much more importance for infantry,artillery or tanks.All vehicle and tanks must offer green cover.Infantry is very important to be able to use abilities when are in trench or buildings.buildings to offer protection almost like trenches,making infantry from inside hard to be eliminated without snipers.

After this improvements/changes is necessary to be doubled maximum number of population,for providing necessary units for massive direct assault and/or defensive purpose,plus forces for flank,harass,recon,support and guerilla operations.



I made all possible to be clear in explanations,but my english is poor...

[Venoxxis]

Thats one of the major problems modding CoH.
Its seems almost impossible to get new models in for the new factions, just reusing the old ones with other skins is possible atm.
For now, we gotta be satisfied with the old ones..

[PSIHOPAT]

How about using british mortar emplacement as a trench structure for russian Mg,or to be built(empty) by engeniers,and used as a trench/cover for AT infantry squad,or russian snipers.

This is possible ?

Also how another mods can bring allot of units,and this mod can't increase number of artillery models?

For example i would like to have two or three models of howitzers,and to use what i want.Same is for AT guns or mortars.Having just one model for mortar,AT or howitzer is very sad.

Last,but not the last,increasing bonus for units in cover or from buildings,trenches or near to tanks, will make game to take longer,and to offer enough time for long term plans,strategy and actions...not just blitz and jogging on the entire map.Also if maximum population will be doubled,the result will be epic battles,and massive assaults will give us allot of spectacle.

[Venoxxis]

yea i know what you mean.
I would like to see that as well, but currently i dont have an answer. lets wait for a developer !

[Hpt.Berger]

The trench designs in maps like kursk and kurland kessel are  all well done and are good inspirations for design if it was possible to construct them. I do like how  the designers  made it so you can repair  damaged trenches.

My highest wish is for the almighty developers to allow ostheer to build trenches also , whenever it will be completed. It about time the axis side  should be able to build a trench, the brits and the soviets can, so why not the axis?

And from how the  soviet mg emplacement  portrait looks like, It was meant to be the coh wooden bunker/shack with an MG, which would look a lot better and be more realistic with how field emplacements were often constructed, not out of lengthy concrete construction process, but using what was available, wood, rocks or other materials(even snow in the winter).
 
I also agree that  allowing footmen abilities inside trenches/buildings should be allowed more, like throwing grenades out of a trench , and so on.

The closest thing that comes to 'emplaced artillery' that is possible at the moment in the coh world, is in the BotB mod , where there is an ability  for veteran artillery to  dig itself in with sandbags.

[WartyX]

Way too complicated for most players. There really is no need for more than one type of each emplacement.

Maybe if EF was a realism mod... but it isn't.

[PSIHOPAT]

Sad to hear such answer......

But i wonder how this mod have nothing with reality/history,when allot of things found here,can be found in history..?...simple coincidence..?...and until now i found no laser or other alien things...

Also why is no need for more options ?Because will make the game too complicated ?

But if the game is very simple,strategies are very limited,and where are more options,is possible to make elaborated strategies....and what is wrong in that ?

I really don't want to insult...i just want to ask...and i really like this mod very much...but this mod is meant just for kids ?

Detailed explanations about my suggestions(negative or not) will be very appreciated.

[Red_Stinger]

I have to agree with you. Totally!!

But the fact is that CoH is a game focused on on "little" skirmish, where you had to preserve your troops from ennemy's fire. So i think it will be complicated for modders actually to develop this concept:they will have to change AND vanilla faction AND new faction ( soviet and of course ostheer), as well as adapte new maps... it can take a long time.

And this kind of game need as you say, a lot of improvements, like melee combat with bayonets (would be awesome!!), and Coh dont have these animation...

The concept is really brilliant, but i think it will stay a concept until a new CoH... 

[PSIHOPAT]

For EPIC and EXHAUSTING war is no need too much work.
Is need just concept.

Why ?
Because rules are applied to ALL factions.

Example :
1 - double maximum population for all factions,but number in squad remain the same
2 - increase defensive bonus for all infantry in light cover,heavy cover and buildings
3 - all tanks give heavy cover for all nearby infantry
4 - all tanks make low damage to buildings or trenches
5 - all artillery have bonus at destroying buildings,but less chance for killing infantry inside
6 - all infantry have cost halved
7 - all snipers have cost halved and cost one pop but maximum number limited(because urban fight will be nightmare without they and to many bring unbalance)
8 - all tanks have big difficulties in killing infantry when they are in cover,trenches,bunkers,buildings
9 - all self propelled guns have better chance in killing infantry(but limited and not too much)
10 - all grenades have good chance in killing infantry in cover or buildings,but chance for throwing them where they want depend by skill of the unit(need adjusted to every unit with grenade)
11 - all rifle have bonus in killing infantry in cover but less chance of hit for moving targets
12 - all infantry with rifles are unable to shoot when moving
13 - all SMG are deadly at close range,are able to shoot when moving,and kill infantry fast if they run in open field,but but have difficulties in killing units with more than light cover or against units from buildings,bunkers or trenches
14 - all infantry with flame throwers do great damage against infantry in high cover and are the best solution in killing fast infantry from buildings,but have very small range,very low accuracy against moving targets,cannot be used when moving,explode when the infantry is killed burning nearby friendly or foe units and do little damage to bunkers,trenches and buildings(for balance and strategy reason)
15 - all field artillery move very slow
16 - all artillery cost reduced by 30%(AT,howitzer,mortars)
17 - All Mg have cost 30% reduced
18 - all trenches,barbed wire,tank traps,road blocks cost manpower for build
19 - all small arms make no damage to armored cars
20 - all shreq and AT rifle destroy armored cars fast,but are unable to destroy tanks,just damaging engine if they hit them from rear
21 - mines destroy armored cars but just "wheels" from tanks
22 - tank traps and road block cannot be destroyed easy with small shells,and just concentrated artillery fire or explosive charges manage to do this in reasonable time
23 - all barbed wire damage wheels from cars,and slow them until they get repair 
_____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________
Another changes who need work
1 - two types of AT field guns,mortars,howitzers,heavy MG, for every faction(2+2+2+2= 8 units =>hard work this)
2 - three or more models for bunkers for every faction
3 - four models for trenches,from small ones to heavy ones who can keep inside even howitzers,mortars,infantry,or AT guns
4 - some AT guns,mortars,howitzers,Mg,have ability to entrench himself (and there will be the fun in choosing)
5 - british mortar emplacement to be used as nest for soviet Mg,new fixed soviet mortar,or small trench for snipers and AT squad,and can be built just by engeniers




That's it for now...

_____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________
 

[hgghg4]

So you want it a realism mod? Well go DL a realism mod then...

[WartyX]

So you want it a realism mod? Well go DL a realism mod then...

[PSIHOPAT]

Quote previous words and give them as a answer.
Genuine answer.
)

I have many mods installed.
Don't worry about that.
Many are just craps.
But some are good.
From all i like just Eastern front and Europe at War V3.0

My sadness is =>this mod have allot of potential but is not used.
another sad think is => another mods will make advantage from this,using russians as a new faction,with more elaborated and complex system.

[WartyX]

another mods will make advantage from this,using russians as a new faction,with more elaborated and complex system.

Only one mod has the permission to do this, and that is Normandy 44: European Theatre. You fall into the minority audience of realism players, so perhaps you would want to try that out once it has the Soviet faction completed.

[PSIHOPAT]

The best balanced mod between reality and game mechanics is this mod.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=230782
Too much reality destroy the gameplay,but also if is no reality fun for games with subject WW2 is lost.

I strongly recommend to make few battle with that mod,and after that,maybe you will like some things,or get some inspiration.

Anyway,i don't like few things from that mod,and answer can be found in my suggestions from above.

[hgghg4]

Only one mod has the permission to do this, and that is Normandy 44: European Theatre. You fall into the minority audience of realism players, so perhaps you would want to try that out once it has the Soviet faction completed.

Damn that is a great lookin mod... did you take part of it?