Updated ostheer army waiting for criticizm

[Ost_Front_Soldat]

There were no M13/40s in Russia. The Italian expeditionary force only had L6/40 light tanks and the light tank destroyer Semovente 47/32.

[Paciat]

There were no M13/40s in Russia. The Italian expeditionary force only had L6/40 light tanks and the light tank destroyer Semovente 47/32.

Ok Im changing it to a hungarian tank then.
Too bad I liked the gun in the hull concept.
Tanks for the info.

[Ost_Front_Soldat]

There were no M13/40s in Russia. The Italian expeditionary force only had L6/40 light tanks and the light tank destroyer Semovente 47/32.

Ok Im changing it to a hungarian tank then.
Too bad I liked the gun in the hull concept.
Tanks for the info.

Actually, the picture you posted was not an M13/40. That is an M11/39, which saw action in Africa. The 37mm gun is primary armament housed in the hull. It was a design that was built with the Spanish Civil War in mind. It was horribly out-classed from the start of the war.

The M13/40, and its later upgrades, the M14/41, and M15/42 looked like this:


The M13/40 series wielded the more capable 47mm Cannone da 47/32 M35. Overall, it was a sound light-tank design. The main drawback(like all other Italian armoured fighting vehicles) was that the armour was riveted, and not welded. This made the entire frame weaker, regardless of the thickness of armour. The engine was borrowed from the M11/39, but the problem wasteh M13/40 was heavier, so it had a poor power-to-weight ratio. The M14/41 was teh same tank but with a stronger engine. The M15/42 had an even better engine and a slightly upgraded turret.

[Paciat]

There were no M13/40s in Russia. The Italian expeditionary force only had L6/40 light tanks and the light tank destroyer Semovente 47/32.

Ok Im changing it to a hungarian tank then.
Too bad I liked the gun in the hull concept.
Tanks for the info.

Actually, the picture you posted was not an M13/40. That is an M11/39, which saw action in Africa. The 37mm gun is primary armament housed in the hull. It was a design that was built with the Spanish Civil War in mind. It was horribly out-classed from the start of the war.

I know. The photos had M11/39 in its name.
I wanted a tank that has a gun in a hull but can be upgraded to a turret mounted version. I called it M13/40 becouse this name is more common than M11/39.
M11/39 and M13/40 were allmost the same. The gun was the main difference.

[Venoxxis]

Hey paciat, im really liking your way of bringing more than
one tiger. Everybody wants to do that last but not least,
but its not easy to find a good one

But what makes the Tiger Ace being a "ACE"?
There is no info about that atm.

I suggest higher speed, faster shooting. (like the orig. wehr
tiger ace did as well in the glorious old days.)
Really, i would love to see a tiger ace. I had it in one of my
very first concepts as well, but for the reason of originailty
and balance i had to drop it out of my concept

really looking for a good solution here..

[Paciat]

But what makes the Tiger Ace being a "ACE"?
There is no info about that atm.

I suggest higher speed, faster shooting. (like the orig. wehr
tiger ace did as well in the glorious old days.)
Really, i would love to see a tiger ace. I had it in one of my
very first concepts as well, but for the reason of originailty
and balance i had to drop it out of my concept

Before KingTiger appeared Tiger Ace was a Vet3 Tiger with more HP.

But I guess youre right. "Higher speed, faster shooting" would be better than more HP.

My ostheer army is based on accuracy and abilities. Becouse Tiger Ace had no abilities I would make ist gun a little faster and more accurate.
A tank optics upgrade would make it allmost 100% accurate. But it wouldnt be armored as a Jagdpanther or a KT and the turret rotation would be as slow as in a regular Tiger I.

I dont want to make it any faster than a Tiger I becouse a Tiger I that is as fast as a vet jagdpanther, has a turret and is better at killing AT guns and infantry would be very OP.

So in short a better gun makes the Tiger Ace being a "ACE".

[wordsmith]

Ok you asked for feedback so here it is mate :

1. I like your veterancy idea, it is original and makes every single unit in game special in some way

2. 7.5cm PaK emplacement is nice thing to have but I guess it is too similar to 17pounder. I understand however that this was heavy PaK and would be hard to have it as movable gun. I think your PanzerjaegerIV could make the AT role better in conclusion so this Pak would not be needed.

3. I would not give the Italian/Hung./Rom. infantry the AT nades ability since I feel that those were more for advanced troops and this should be light infantry. They could have Molotov cocktail instead f.e..

4. Kubelwagen +1

5. Stielgranate 41 was shaped charge as far as I know, means anti-tank. I don't know about its use vs infantry but I could be wrong. Any info on this?

6. Gebirgsjaeger +1, however I would not give them AT rifles but something different because those were more like light or recon troops. And definitely not threadbreaker, since in your concept PaK36 has this ability. I think one unit only should have such ability otherwise it would be OP.

7. Sdkfz251 - medic upgrade seems very similar to Russian ZiS5 truck, I would reconsider other method of healing troops than in car... (some medic infantry f.e.)

8. only 1 Tiger? I know that this is a very often concern of many other players about more Tigers but I would not be afraid of putting 2 (or maybe 3 limit). It could be tuned with cost or attributes. If only 1 Tiger available ... why then make it in factory? It could be only doctrinal. When thinking about max.limit to units - no unit which can be build in building in whole CoH has limit, with exception of British LT, Captain and Command tank.

9. Spy unit - I would give them triangulation, but to be original they could build a "Telemetry station" f.e., which would be like British radio (cloaks after build) and have some range around which function as radar - similar to PE Vampire car. And limit its build to only 1 at a time in game.

[Paciat]

2. 7.5cm PaK emplacement is nice thing to have but I guess it is too similar to 17pounder. I understand however that this was heavy PaK and would be hard to have it as movable gun. I think your PanzerjaegerIV could make the AT role better in conclusion so this Pak would not be needed.

5. Stielgranate 41 was shaped charge as far as I know, means anti-tank. I don't know about its use vs infantry but I could be wrong. Any info on this?

6. Gebirgsjaeger +1, however I would not give them AT rifles but something different because those were more like light or recon troops. And definitely not threadbreaker, since in your concept PaK36 has this ability. I think one unit only should have such ability otherwise it would be OP.

7. Sdkfz251 - medic upgrade seems very similar to Russian ZiS5 truck, I would reconsider other method of healing troops than in car... (some medic infantry f.e.)

8. only 1 Tiger? I know that this is a very often concern of many other players about more Tigers but I would not be afraid of putting 2 (or maybe 3 limit). It could be tuned with cost or attributes. If only 1 Tiger available ... why then make it in factory? It could be only doctrinal. When thinking about max.limit to units - no unit which can be build in building in whole CoH has limit, with exception of British LT, Captain and Command tank.

9. Spy unit - I would give them triangulation, but to be original they could build a "Telemetry station" f.e., which would be like British radio (cloaks after build) and have some range around which function as radar - similar to PE Vampire car. And limit its build to only 1 at a time in game.

2. 7.5cm PaK emplacement can be build after very early upgrade. You just need 40 fuel.
PanzerjaegerIV on the other hand is a very late unit. You need Tier 2, 3 and 4 and a 7.5cm PaK upgrade to build it.
So the 7.5cm PaK replaces shrecks.

6. Gebirgsjaeger AT rifle isnt as powerfull as the russian rifle. It had only 7,92mm bullet. I would make it better (more accurate) at sniping infantry. Treadbreaker and AT granade the only thing that Gebirgsjaeger can do to medium tanks. All AT bullets will bounce off. Both 3,7 cm Paks and  Gebirgsjaegers (like the PE halftrack) need to work with armor/7,5cm PaKs to destroy medium tanks.

5. Kompania Braci Odcinek 3 Część 2/7
Its a Band of Brothers episode (translated to Polish - but who cares) at 7:35 Stielgranate 41 (correct me if Im wrong) is used vs infantry. But this ability can be also used vs heavier armor. (Armor penetraltion and damage bonus)
Ill change the description.

7. Ive got a "new" idea for a healing ability. In both Tiger Ace and Causeway campains theres an ability to revive wounded comrades for ammo. It would be great if (after an first aid upgrade?) every infantry squad could reinfrce using wounded that lay on the ground. When a squad is reviveing it could take more damage (like pioners repairing).

A german army without a halftrack would be wierd but Im going to re-think the Sdkfz251. (and the medic bunker as well)

8. There will be only 1 non doctrinal tiger, 1 siege doctrine elephant and 1 maneuver doctrine tiger ace.
Tech up, get 1750MP, 180 Fuel, 8CPs and you can make 2 Tigers or a Elephant/Tiger combo at the same time. The normal Tiger from the factory can be revived by a bergetiger so in theory you can have more than 2 tigers.
All tanks will also benefit from a "Panzer crews now support each other." ability. Its on the same side of the doctrinal tree as the Tiger Ace ability. Hope its not OP...

9. Thats a nice idea.  I will change it.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Just a small historical note about the Stielgranate 41:
That is one of the non historical points of Band of Brothers
The Stielgranate 41 was used
against vehicles. This grenade hadnt a
high explosive effect like you see at the BoB
scene. The Stielgranate 41 based on the hollow
charges ( Hohlladungsgranate ) and not on
massive explosion by gunpowder. So a anti tank
gun crew would be crazy or despaired when they
had used such a grenade against infantry. So my
advice; when u think about such a "weapon", dont
use the Stielgranate 41 for anti infantry combat

[Paciat]

So my advice; when u think about such a "weapon", dont
use the Stielgranate 41 for anti infantry combat

Ok, Im changing it to a standard high explosive round.
In very early game PAK needs an ability to fight something more just jeeps and BREN carriers.
Again tanks for the info.

[wordsmith]

2. 7.5cm PaK emplacement can be build after very early upgrade. You just need 40 fuel.
PanzerjaegerIV on the other hand is a very late unit. You need Tier 2, 3 and 4 and a 7.5cm PaK upgrade to build it.
So the 7.5cm PaK replaces shrecks.

6. Gebirgsjaeger AT rifle isnt as powerfull as the russian rifle. It had only 7,92mm bullet. I would make it better (more accurate) at sniping infantry. Treadbreaker and AT granade the only thing that Gebirgsjaeger can do to medium tanks. All AT bullets will bounce off. Both 3,7 cm Paks and  Gebirgsjaegers (like the PE halftrack) need to work with armor/7,5cm PaKs to destroy medium tanks.

5. Its a Band of Brothers episode (translated to Polish - but who cares) at 7:35 Stielgranate 41 (correct me if Im wrong) is used vs infantry. But this ability can be also used vs heavier armor. (Armor penetraltion and damage bonus)
Ill change the description.

7. Ive got a "new" idea for a healing ability. In both Tiger Ace and Causeway campains theres an ability to revive wounded comrades for ammo. It would be great if (after an first aid upgrade?) every infantry squad could reinfrce using wounded that lay on the ground. When a squad is reviveing it could take more damage (like pioners repairing).

A german army without a halftrack would be wierd but Im going to re-think the Sdkfz251. (and the medic bunker as well)

8. There will be only 1 non doctrinal tiger, 1 siege doctrine elephant and 1 maneuver doctrine tiger ace.
Tech up, get 1750MP, 180 Fuel, 8CPs and you can make 2 Tigers or a Elephant/Tiger combo at the same time. The normal Tiger from the factory can be revived by a bergetiger so in theory you can have more than 2 tigers.
All tanks will also benefit from a "Panzer crews now support each other." ability. Its on the same side of the doctrinal tree as the Tiger Ace ability. Hope its not OP...

9. Thats a nice idea.  I will change it.

2. I read some suggestions on this forum about heavy guns, like Pak40 to be able to move only with some kind of tractor or halftrack. Maybe this idea should be included in Ostheer. Anyway Pak40 emplacement should be available in game in approximate time when 17pounder could be available, to maintain balance. This means after 15+30+25 fuel.

5. Stielgranate41 - as Lord Rommel said, it is AT weapon. Btw I can understand Polish language, we are neighbor country

6. If Gebirgsjaeger should have Threadbreak ability then I would not give it to Pak36 just for the sake of balance.

7. Some kind of halftrack is must for Ostheer! My suggestion was only concerning Medic upgrade to be not similar to Russian.

8. Tiger is quite a big issue for everybody, I'm thinking of some way to balance it like progressive popcap or something like that. I don't like the unit limit on units beeing produced in factory, that just not feel right. Although I understand the other point that more Tigers could be devastating - but hey that was just like in WW2! Tiger is just superb tank design, what else could be said...

I can imagine that from all Allies factions the British would eventually have the biggest problem dealing with multiple Tigers. US could use Rifle+Sticky/57/Ranger-Air RR/M10-M18 combo and Russian just spam Guards/AT guns/Su85-100/T34-IS2. British best option would be spam of Piats hidden in Kangaroos or trenches. 17pounders along with Fireflys would not survive long enough to stand multiple Tigers.

And the Bergtiger is only available for PE, so here we are talking about special case 2vs2 or more players.

[Paciat]

2. I read some suggestions on this forum about heavy guns, like Pak40 to be able to move only with some kind of tractor or halftrack. Maybe this idea should be included in Ostheer. Anyway Pak40 emplacement should be available in game in approximate time when 17pounder could be available, to maintain balance. This means after 15+30+25 fuel.

5. Stielgranate41 - as Lord Rommel said, it is AT weapon. Btw I can understand Polish language, we are neighbor country

6. If Gebirgsjaeger should have Threadbreak ability then I would not give it to Pak36 just for the sake of balance.

7. Some kind of halftrack is must for Ostheer! My suggestion was only concerning Medic upgrade to be not similar to Russian.

8. Tiger is quite a big issue for everybody, I'm thinking of some way to balance it like progressive popcap or something like that. I don't like the unit limit on units beeing produced in factory, that just not feel right. Although I understand the other point that more Tigers could be devastating - but hey that was just like in WW2! Tiger is just superb tank design, what else could be said...

I can imagine that from all Allies factions the British would eventually have the biggest problem dealing with multiple Tigers. US could use Rifle+Sticky/57/Ranger-Air RR/M10-M18 combo and Russian just spam Guards/AT guns/Su85-100/T34-IS2. British best option would be spam of Piats hidden in Kangaroos or trenches. 17pounders along with Fireflys would not survive long enough to stand multiple Tigers.

And the Bergtiger is only available for PE, so here we are talking about special case 2vs2 or more players.

2. All heavy guns (105, 88, 25lbs, 17lbs, bofors) were towed but they are build in COH. I just dont want to create ideas that are difficult (or impossible) to code.
In my concept you can have 7,5cm emplacements after an 40Fuel upgrade but youll probably will want to build Tier I or Tier II first (becouse AT guns are allmost useless in early game vs allies).
So youre probaly have 7,5cm PAKs in the same time when UK has theirs.

5. I allready changed Stielgranate41 to HE shells. Very early AT guns need an ability fo fight infantry (I doubt that youll get to vet 3 only by killing BRENs and jeeps).

6. Pak 3,7cm have a treadbreaker ability at vet 3 now so you probably want see them treadbreaking anyway.

7. Still thinking about a halftrack. A german army without a halftrack/truck is a joke for me.

8. I dont want to give more than 2 tigers to Ostheer in 1vs1 games.
At double Ostheer games (2vs2) there can be 4 Tigers on the field  (2 for every Ostheer player).
There are also JagdpanzerIVs that can support Tigers well with their Panther guns.
2 tigers and a 20mm quad will also kill any ranger/PIAT blob so AT guns Fireflies, M-18/M-10, is the only real to defeat 2 Tigers with support.
But for 1800MP/180fuel you can build 3 hellcats and 3 AT guns.

[joebill]

You saved me a lot of posting. Everything I thought the ostheer should have (rifles/abilities/foreign troops) is in there! And the doctrines aren't bad either.

[irik]

It's a good Ostheer, a lot better than what I could come up with.

[hgghg4]

Hellcats not ambushing are worthless against anything heavier then a P4, in a 3v3 I had 3 Tigers because they killed my tigers and we finally pushed them back far enough to get them back then the one US player threw 9 Hellcats at my tigers and they all died before I lost 50% health on one of the Tigers