No "Oh shit" button for Russians?

[Joshua9]

Just wondering about the Commander Selections for russians having no anti heavy vehicle within the first 3 command points, which is where they would need it against an unexpected tank. Pe pzIV or even a quick werbel or stugs(heh..probably not stugs)

Every other faction has something at the moment that can deal with quick armor rushes as at least a band-aid.  Wehr has storms, PE's comes relatively late at 4, but is solid in the hetzer.  Americans have rangers or airborne(hate them), and Brits have the churchill.

I am aware that Russians really should have no problem being prepared...building the second building is probably a no-brainer once you hit 50 fuel...there are no bars or incendiaries or grenades or vettings to blow your fuel on.

It's also probably true that currenlty getting a fast tank out against russia is not easy.  But I"ve gotten a pretty early panzer 4 out and I watched another example of werbels in a russian base, and I noticed that even if somebody is prepared, and has tank hunters and has those refreshingly abysmal(and I'm not being sarcastic) at guns ready, panzer 4's (especially)will still roll them.  Best part is they don't even have to spend time attacking ground, since the guns can't be recrewed.

So , I don't know, is this a balance problem?  Something that should be looked at in design, or are russians more than capable of making up for this disadvantage as is?

[WhiteFlash]

they are very capable, the tank hunters have AT gernades, and can lay mines and have better range since 1.02, the AT guns arent that bad.  Ive been playing EF since its release with Reborn, we havent a problem w tank rushes early, partly due to the axis having to keep pressure or the russian capping power will prevent the needed fuel for a tank rush and partly due to the fact that the AT the soviets get early get the job done fine, especially since the tank hunter buffs happened.

[xenotype]

Tank hunter is now a capable AT force.  Rushes shouldnt be a huge problem.

[Iglooman]

Yea At infantery are now very useful for their price.

[Joshua9]

follow-up question,

because there is no doctrinal anti-tank, does that mean that it's way too risky in 1v1 to ever skip t-2?  Is the build for russians always 1, 2, 3 by neccesity?
 

[xenotype]

because there is no doctrinal anti-tank, does that mean that it's way too risky in 1v1 to ever skip t-2?  Is the build for russians always 1, 2, 3 by neccesity?

Unfortunately it seems to be that way and I can't think of any reasonable way to fix it.

[bavbav]

ye right now its almoast always 1 2 3, it would be great to have some variety to british build orders

lack of doctrine at is compensated by t2, you cant really go straight to tanks now that t3 costs 115 fuel.. t2 is just too usefull to skip

sadly no variation. its always the same every game, command squad, 3-4 conscirpts, t2 then some units from that and then t3 and start tanks and shock guards..

id say giving them back 25 starting fuel and make mustering tent cost 10 and command squad 15 so u can make a choice and go faster t2? or something i dont know. lowering t3 back to 100 fuel, but make t34s require t2 and t1 to be built..

well its really not flexible enough. like say wehr has lots of options, can go some t1 and then t2 or t3, or straight to t2, hell maybe even t1-t4 with oping fuel. its pretty equal if sov goes t1-t3, because command squad and conscripts can only hold the map for so long before u start to lose it. or pe can mass grens, go hts, go fast ac, etc i mean even american have lots of variation fast upgrades for rifles, wsc or fast motorpool, etc. sovs are really the same everygame and there is nothing that can suprise opponent

[carnagel]

Yea At infantery are now very useful for their price.

That's like saying 'Conscripts are very useful because they use no manpower'

While both statements are true, so is this one -

'Both Soviet AT Infantry and Conscripts are useless unless blobbed to the extreme'

[WartyX]

I disagree. Try sticking both a conscript squad and an AT squad in a large building, and see if the Wehr will mess.

[WhiteFlash]

+1

[w00tm0ng3r]

Yea At infantery are now very useful for their price.

That's like saying 'Conscripts are very useful because they use no manpower'

While both statements are true, so is this one -

'Both Soviet AT Infantry and Conscripts are useless unless blobbed to the extreme'

AT infantry is hardly useless. PTRDs appear to have the same stats as recoiless rifles (base stats identical, target tables might be different but they seem to penetrate everything like RRs so I doubt it). For less muni than even 1 RR you can make each successive tank hunter squad have identical AT capability to an AB squad at half the MP. With the new patch you can now have twice the AT ability of a doctrine limited elite infantry (and now at more range) on a per cost basis, and it gets even more egregious from there since you only pay the 100 muni once while he's stuck paying the 125 muni for every squad while trying to get weapons/abilities for everything else he has on the field. Cost comparison to schreck grens is even more laughable: 600 mp 150 muni gets you 2 grens with a schreck apiece; 600 mp and 100 muni gets you the equivalent of 6 recoiless rifles, which a US player would have to fork over 1125 mp 375 muni for. Did I mention the new patch gave them an armor upgrade and AT nades too?

[hgghg4]

Shreks have a 50% accuracy rating compared to the RR's 75-90% (not sure what it is exactly) but it is crazy high

[w00tm0ng3r]

Shreks have a 50% accuracy rating compared to the RR's 75-90% (not sure what it is exactly) but it is crazy high

Oh snap seems that's one area where the PTRD is different from RRs... because it's twice as accurate at long range (.7/.8/.9 vs .35/.6/.1 for RR and .35/.7/1 for schrecks). HOWEVER, PTRDs use the ridiculously low RR scatter angle, so even if it does miss, it STILL hits...

[xenotype]

PTRDs do very little damage against medium and heavy armor no matter how accurate.  They are just not comparable to RRs.

[hgghg4]

hit the Medium and heavy armor in the ass.... and you'll take that back