1.02patch list from REBORN

[WhiteFlash]

Sniper team: arty needs to not be insta arty and be less powerfull
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Supersniper: arty needs to NOT be insta arty, and less powerful arty
only 1 time call in at 500mp, make sure it doesnt die from 1 mine or 1 sniper shot
OOOOOOR
be repeatable call in (only 1 on field) at 800mp cost, make sure it doesn't die from 1 butterfly bomb(it currently does)
Reason: Its very easy to keep alive, the stickys kill bikes and with med truck it can be healed relativly easily.(cloaked super unit calling in arty can be devastating)
Should take more than 1 hit to die from counter snipe
Should take more than 1 mine to die
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Katyusha rocket: 300mp-->400mp
Reason: if you clump 3 and fire together, devastating against inf
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Guards: 300mp-->375mp
anti inf grenade, less damage
Reason: lost of abilities and unsupressable relativly easy to spam
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SU100: check almost dead bug
Reason: had tiger fire 4 shots at a 5%health su100 2 on rear armor with NO effect, not even damage engine etc.
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ISU152: 1 time call in 500mp
Reason: kills alot of tanks that are at 3/4 health in 1 shot, such as stug, PE p4 etc although it is slow its armor and power(like the jag) dictate it should be 1 time
ever call in at 500mp...
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Morter: needs to START as costing 350mp
slower rate of fire
increase build time
without line of sight the morter is inaccurate(good), when. the morter has line of sight its accurate(bad) the accuracy when it has LOS needs to be reduced
Reason: still devastating but better, these changed will fix it.
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Conscripts: make unarmed units not run into enemies
Reason:although cover is used still draining manpower
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All Infantry: number telling amount of people in squad to work
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Whermacht Propaganda Ability: Should insta-supress inf
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Axis Snipers: should kill soviet sniper person with the 1hit kill rifle first every time.
Reason: Axis sniper kinda usless at the moment
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The british with the soviets (as far as muni op goes) could be a problem
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2201.0
this post explains more
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Also the british med bunkers with soviet high casualties can be a HUGE problem. 1 unit that costs 200mp, (conscripts)8 people die, british get almost 2 units that cost 450mp.
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Command squad: needs to have teir1 get. binoculars, teir2 get heroic charge, teir3 get arty
Reason: can force entire army to retreat in beginning and is OP early game
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fuel cost:50+90+15+90=245 Sherman
Fuel cost:100+75=175 T34
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T34: Needs an increase in manpower cost 300mp-->350mp
and slight build time increase.
Reason: comes out too fast
Also, t34 engine sound is loud, perhaps turn down a little? VERY easy to spot in fog of war.
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IS2: Needs hitpoints to be reduced by 10%
needs POP cost to be increased from 12-->14
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axis 88 sound should be put back to the normal sound
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TANK DEPOT: needs build time increased
Reason: tanks come out too fast for soviets
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Outpost: There is a bug where the outpost will be down to 5% health and small arms fire wont kill it. itll sit at 5% forever.

[SexyUnderwaterAction]

spot on, aside from some game-mechanics changes that i feel are needed

[thebomb]

Sniper team: arty needs to not be insta arty and be less powerfull

Agree with non-instant artillery. Would also like to see the ability on a global cooldown. That's enough nerfs, doesn't need to do less damage.
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Supersniper: arty needs to NOT be insta arty, and less powerful arty
only 1 time call in at 500mp, make sure it doesnt die from 1 mine or 1 sniper shot
OOOOOOR
be repeatable call in (only 1 on field) at 800mp cost, make sure it doesn't die from 1 butterfly bomb(it currently does)
Reason: Its very easy to keep alive, the stickys kill bikes and with med truck it can be healed relativly easily.(cloaked super unit calling in arty can be devastating)
Should take more than 1 hit to die from counter snipe
Should take more than 1 mine to die

Should be repeatable call in since the guy dies so easily. If you watched GreenApple's replay you'll see that his sniper ace died from a stray shell from his ally - would suck if it was a one-time call in.
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Katyusha rocket: 300mp-->400mp
Reason: if you clump 3 and fire together, devastating against inf

Eh...Katyusha is the weakest artillery system in its class..you could sneeze on it and it will die. I don't see any reason to increase its cost. Maybe limit them to 3 per game.
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Guards: 300mp-->375mp
anti inf grenade, less damage
Reason: lost of abilities and unsupressable relativly easy to spam

Umm NO. Do you realize how broken Soviets will be if your suggestion were to go through? What are Soviets supposed to counter vet 3 Wehr infantry with? Guards in their current for are the only thing that is BARELY keeping the late-game infantry playing field even.
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SU100: check almost dead bug
Reason: had tiger fire 4 shots at a 5%health su100 2 on rear armor with NO effect, not even damage engine etc.

5% bug, it's a Relic thing IIRC
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ISU152: 1 time call in 500mp
Reason: kills alot of tanks that are at 3/4 health in 1 shot, such as stug, PE p4 etc although it is slow its armor and power(like the jag) dictate it should be 1 time
ever call in at 500mp...

Don't have any problems with its firepower but yeah 1 time call in for sure.
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Morter: needs to START as costing 350mp
slower rate of fire
increase build time
without line of sight the morter is inaccurate(good), when. the morter has line of sight its accurate(bad) the accuracy when it has LOS needs to be reduced
Reason: still devastating but better, these changed will fix it.

Mortar already got nerfed..it's fine now.
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Conscripts: make unarmed units not run into enemies
Reason:although cover is used still draining manpower

Agreed. This is very annoying.
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All Infantry: number telling amount of people in squad to work

Agreed.
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Whermacht Propaganda Ability: Should insta-supress inf

Agreed.
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Axis Snipers: should kill soviet sniper person with the 1hit kill rifle first every time.
Reason: Axis sniper kinda usless at the moment

Axis sniper is definitely not useless. IIRC he has a bigger range and can take out sharpshooters on the move since they don't have camo like the wehr sniper does.
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The british with the soviets (as far as muni op goes) could be a problem
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2201.0
this post explains more

Agreed.
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Also the british med bunkers with soviet high casualties can be a HUGE problem. 1 unit that costs 200mp, (conscripts)8 people die, british get almost 2 units that cost 450mp.

Agreed.
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Command squad: needs to have teir1 get. binoculars, teir2 get heroic charge, teir3 get arty
Reason: can force entire army to retreat in beginning and is OP early game

Agreed.
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fuel cost:50+90+15+90=245 Sherman
Fuel cost:100+75=175 T34

....why are you comparing American tanks to Soviet tanks???

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T34: Needs an increase in manpower cost 300mp-->350mp
and slight build time increase.
Reason: comes out too fast
Also, t34 engine sound is loud, perhaps turn down a little? VERY easy to spot in fog of war.

Eh..don't really have an opinion at this point.
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IS2: Needs hitpoints to be reduced by 10%
needs POP cost to be increased from 12-->14

No freakin' way. Learn to flank. Wehr tanks are not No.1 anymore. Deal with it.
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axis 88 sound should be put back to the normal sound

ok
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TANK DEPOT: needs build time increased
Reason: tanks come out too fast for soviets

With no access to T90 Soviets are screwed early game. Disagree. We're already nerfing T34 cost anyway. Maybe make a tier system in tank hall.
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Outpost: There is a bug where the outpost will be down to 5% health and small arms fire wont kill it. itll sit at 5% forever.

5% bug again.

[MaxConners]

with the IS-2 the idea that there are maybe 4 men inside counting for 14 pop? you need to have it be at most 6-8 pop and only have 2 on the feild at a time

[iverieli]

I agree 100% with thebomb.

You can't just nerf everything the Soviets have. There are countless counters for them.

Ever tried playing as the Soviets and been vet pio spam rushed with PE AC rush? You're pretty much helpless. For Soviets, before you can field the weakest of "armor", you need 130 fuel. The weakest upgrades are a minimum of 100 munis.

Conscripts are cannon fodder and the only good starting unit is the command squad.

Katyusha has already been limited to 3 in 1.01 and the entire 1.01 patch has nerfed and balanced the Soviets pretty well actually.

[Fuhrious]

Sounds good in general I like these ideas. The British or American medic bunker mopping up reds is a big problem. I just played a 2v2 where the Brits exploited this to get a massive raging blob by early mid game. Horrible stuff. Hopefully they can quickly make it so that reds are dead and not collected by medics when taken down ASAP or mixed faction allied games are gonna suck ass.

I think the Katuysha to 400mp is over-cooking the turkey here. Perhaps 350mp at most but I really don't see it as a problem currently so just leave as is. Remember, axis infantry has a retreat function!!

One balance issue I would like to suggest is to do with the support centre's ability to produce anti tank units. It seems it has two options and they are both quite woeful:

1) The anti tank gun is effective but is far too costly since it cannot be re-manned and even reinforcing the crew is 96MP per man!

Solution: make it able to be re-manned and/or cheaper to reinforce.

2) Tank hunters. Absolute rubbish without the upgrade to get a second gun. Even then they barely pass muster. Fair enough they are very cheap. Perhaps a second upgrade for them could give them the magnetic bomb.

The support centre is rubbish for AT. Anyone that doubts that play against Wehr Expert comp, where you will probably not have enough fuel to get tanks before the computer gets pumas which it loves to do. Your support centre AT will get munched.

Just one last point going back to being able to re-crew or capture weapons. I am not impressed by this part of the faction design. It's a double whammy because it means leaving weapons for the enemy. I am not sure of the logic why they made it this way? Doesn't seem true to history or resulting in better gameplay. I think if this system is maintained, at least allow soviet sappers to salvage them for MP or MUN as a bonus for over-running them, and also not allowing them to fall back into enemy hands.

[thebomb]

Just one last point going back to being able to re-crew or capture weapons. I am not impressed by this part of the faction design. It's a double whammy because it means leaving weapons for the enemy. I am not sure of the logic why they made it this way? Doesn't seem true to history or resulting in better gameplay. I think if this system is maintained, at least allow soviet sappers to salvage them for MP or MUN as a bonus for over-running them, and also not allowing them to fall back into enemy hands.

This is Relic's fault. There's a hardcoded bug which causes the game to crash if a new faction recrews weapons.

[BlitzKitten]

Great ideas there lads,

agree with most of the things said, especially the sniper arty and the ISU-152 1 time call in especially due to mechanics being able to salvage wrecks now.

Considering panthers are a 12 pop it seems to make sense to have a 14-15 pop for the IS-2.

As mechanics can now salvage, they are extremely useful maybe increase cost from 300 -> 400mp?

[xenotype]

IS2 should be left alone now.  Get used to dealing with hard soviet armor late game, allies have had it hard forever on that.  Its already significantly more expensive than a panther to field.  Tank hunters need either a treadbreak/blinding ability or AT nades with upgrade.  Raise the MP cost if it makes them more powerful, they are damn near useless now unless you clump them together.  Also the new crashes are a serious bug!

[Fuhrious]

This is Relic's fault. There's a hardcoded bug which causes the game to crash if a new faction recrews weapons.

Ahhh cheers for clearing that mystery up. What a great shame I hope Relic does the right thing and fixes that. In the meantime then I would love to see them implement a system of allow soviet engineers to salvage all weapons for MP/Mun. At least that allows them to get something back from their own losses here and clear the field of weapons after a push so they don't just fall straight back to enemy hands.

[iverieli]

Sounds good in general I like these ideas. The British or American medic bunker mopping up reds is a big problem. I just played a 2v2 where the Brits exploited this to get a massive raging blob by early mid game. Horrible stuff. Hopefully they can quickly make it so that reds are dead and not collected by medics when taken down ASAP or mixed faction allied games are gonna suck ass.

I think the Katuysha to 400mp is over-cooking the turkey here. Perhaps 350mp at most but I really don't see it as a problem currently so just leave as is. Remember, axis infantry has a retreat function!!

One balance issue I would like to suggest is to do with the support centre's ability to produce anti tank units. It seems it has two options and they are both quite woeful:

1) The anti tank gun is effective but is far too costly since it cannot be re-manned and even reinforcing the crew is 96MP per man!

Solution: make it able to be re-manned and/or cheaper to reinforce.

2) Tank hunters. Absolute rubbish without the upgrade to get a second gun. Even then they barely pass muster. Fair enough they are very cheap. Perhaps a second upgrade for them could give them the magnetic bomb.

The support centre is rubbish for AT. Anyone that doubts that play against Wehr Expert comp, where you will probably not have enough fuel to get tanks before the computer gets pumas which it loves to do. Your support centre AT will get munched.

Just one last point going back to being able to re-crew or capture weapons. I am not impressed by this part of the faction design. It's a double whammy because it means leaving weapons for the enemy. I am not sure of the logic why they made it this way? Doesn't seem true to history or resulting in better gameplay. I think if this system is maintained, at least allow soviet sappers to salvage them for MP or MUN as a bonus for over-running them, and also not allowing them to fall back into enemy hands.

Very well said.

IS2 should be left alone now.  Get used to dealing with hard soviet armor late game, allies have had it hard forever on that.  Its already significantly more expensive than a panther to field.  Tank hunters need either a treadbreak/blinding ability or AT nades with upgrade.  Raise the MP cost if it makes them more powerful, they are damn near useless now unless you clump them together.  Also the new crashes are a serious bug!

Yeah I noticed that quick - those Tank Hunter squads are worthless.

People tend to forget the cost of the IS-2, they also tend to forget that Soviets CAN'T retreat and the fact they CAN'T re-man and take weapons! Thats a huge blow as it is.

[Shaq]

To me it seems like most axis players are complaining about the allies having good armor now

[moonblood]

did you ever thought about that there may exist people which like to play brits, pe, us, wehr and russians? people who are no axis or allies players people who are just Eastern Front COH players?

@balancing list

i agree the most stuff especially the free instant arty changes

to fix that the t34 is shown so early maybe increate the fuel costs of buildings slightly

maybe there should be a change about russian casualties which can pickes up by CCS

the combination of russian and brits with russian spaming conscripts for zombie tommies is very nasty

[WhiteFlash]

Liking responses, thoughts...

The IS2 is stronger than the panther, it SHOULD be.  Its strength should be reflected in its cost and population. 

Having said that its manpower cost is = to panther and its fuel cost is 40 more.  The POP is also = to panther.  So its not significantly more expensive then the panther.  Driving around the tank with 1 panther cant own it because the IS2 can turn treads and turret to counter.  You would need a panther and something else.  Because there is no other fuel costs for the Soviets besides tanks and 2 buildings the IS2 should have the changes previously stated.
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Soviet tank hunter squads are weak.  They also only cost 200manpower and have very low pop cost.  The upgrade only costing 100muni makes it easy to upgrade.

Having said that I think maybe a small increase in their survivability OR their attack power would help their usefulness.
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Katusha rockets are very mobile to compensate for their lack of armor, they also have solid range.  I could see their manpower cost only going up to 350 instead of 400.  But it does need an increase because clumping them and firing together is extreme firepower that needs to be reflected in its cost.
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I can agree with the tank depot not getting a build time increase.
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The soviet and american tank comparison wasnt supposed to be on here.
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While the axis sniper isnt USLESS, it isnt as useful as it was intended to be, the sniper fix should at least be tried.
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The morter is still devastating, the nerf would be minor.  The morter taking out 1 or 2 squads early game with LOS can be gg early because of the soviet capping power.  Also the morter does big damage to armor and the bunker dies in 3 hits.  When the morter has line of sight its too accurate.
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I think the guards could be considered ok, but they need to come later in the game, it takes axis considerable time and fuel to get their inf to be powerful, the soviets only need 150fuel and the muni upgrade and they get their power inf.
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The supersniper debate would  pretty much have to be tested to see whats fair.
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I like the idea of the snipers arty callins to be global nerf, great idea.

[moonblood]

the super sniper should decloak when calling in arty