Soviet Tanks Regarding Toughness

[skoubi]

One thing I've noticed, is that Soviet tanks don't have that which imo is called toughness.
For example :

When an 57 anti tank or pak38 fires against tanks, there is a small possibillity that the shell will just bounce off the armor with minimal to nothing damage. I call that for the sake of argument, let's say, toughness.
When anti tank weapons or other tanks fire on soviet tanks, the hits always register damage.
What I'd like to ask is : Is there an attribute in tank units that enables them to "soak" some of this damage ?

 Thanks Again.

[w00tm0ng3r]

It's actually called armor. The way it works is that a gun has a certain penetration value against every single unit in the game, modified by upgrades (PE tank hunter's pzgr 40 ability), distance (generally penetration decreases with range), and a bunch of other crap (hull down, hetzer ambush, AP rounds, etc). The final value is a probability of doing full damage.

For example, if a hypothetical tank had a penetration value of 70% against another tank, 70% of the time it hit it would do full damage. The other 30% of the time it would deflect and do damage X a deflected modifier (for most tanks this is 15%, most at guns have 50%). Thus, if our tank did 100 damage per shot with a 15% deflected modifier, it would do 100 damage 70% of the time and 15 damage 30% of the time for an average of 74.5 damage per shot.

The t34 doesn't seem to have very much armor in this game (so most things will have large penetration values against it), meaning it won't deflect many shots. However, the IS2 and especially the ISU 152 have very good armor, managing to bounce tiger and panther shells and occasionally even king tiger shells. The SU-100 also has very decent armor, managing to consistently bounce a stug at close range and stugs have better guns than pz4s.

[skoubi]

Thank you very much for the prompt answer 

[Akalonor]

Why don't the IS 2's work for me? My IS 2 got killed by a Panzer IV in a frontal shootout, Am I missing something ? The shoutout video by the developers showed two IS 2's killing a king tiger,I couldn't kill a panther with two IS 2's. It's driving me crazy 0.O

[hgghg4]

remember that shootout was 1.00 not 1.04.... the Soviets where extremely OP in 1.00

[bSword]

I find that the T-34 has really weak armor, it's ok to use against StuG's but I don't like to use it against more powerful armor because they get killed pretty quickly by AT fire.  The SU-85 goes down even easier.  The IS-2 is a lot better but it still seems to soak up damage pretty easily compared to other heavy tanks...I think what the topic creator is getting at is that Soviet tanks seem to take damage no matter what, whereas other tanks like StuG's and Panzers have a chance to deflect tank shells and take little damage, especially if hit in the front.  Soviet tanks don't seem to have that chance to deflect shells.

Overall the Soviet tanks seem to miss their shots more than other tanks too, too bad they can't get veterancy.  It would be kind of nice if there was a general tank upgrade for the Soviets that improved their gunnery and armor, instead you can only upgrade the T-34 and the SU-85.

In any case it's not a huge deal, the Russian tanks are generally cheap plus in late game you can use a lot of different stuff like AT guns and especially Guards, their AT grenades are awesome and really good for finishing off a damaged tank.

[Zerstörer]

T34/76 has same armour as a sherman and slightly more hitpoints. Its inaccurate at long rage mostly so you have to get close and it will do the job even vs a PzIV. Just keep the frontal armour towards the PzIV. T34 shots won't be deflected while some PzIV shots will. The SU you have to consider it like a Marder...glass cannon

My IS 2 got killed by a Panzer IV

That's impossible unless the IS2 had a slither of health left when the duel started and the PzIV came at point blank

IS-2s in 1.00 had 1/4 more health same as the uber Jagdpanther. While their health dropped in 1.04 their damage vs heavy tanks increased

[Akalonor]

You're correct in saying it wasn't at full health, Id say 60 %  and you'd be correct in saying the Panzer went for point blank.But I spoke the truth,I lost my IS-2 to a standard Panzer  the Panzer could shoot faster thus getting more damage in and none was absorbed because it (as I said before) went for point blank rear. Another irritant was when my IS-2 (at around 55% health) was taken out by a single grenadier, point blank with a panzershreck( not single Squad, SINGLE soldier 0.o .I had no Anti infantry units in the area)

[w00tm0ng3r]

You're correct in saying it wasn't at full health, Id say 60 %  and you'd be correct in saying the Panzer went for point blank.But I spoke the truth,I lost my IS-2 to a standard Panzer  the Panzer could shoot faster thus getting more damage in and none was absorbed because it (as I said before) went for point blank rear. Another irritant was when my IS-2 (at around 55% health) was taken out by a single grenadier, point blank with a panzershreck( not single Squad, SINGLE soldier 0.o .I had no Anti infantry units in the area)

I'm sorry but both of those sound like extreme player fail. Getting point blanked in the ass is not a situation you should make a habit of putting your tanks in, especially when the IS2 is just as fast as the pz4. Even then, the pz4 should just barely win, so it sounds like you also had no support for it. The second case is just sad. At 50% health it would still take a schreck at least 5 shots to kill the IS2, and they shoot once every 8 seconds on average, so you had your IS2 getting pounded point blank by a single man for at the minimum 32 seconds (assuming all 5 hits penetrate and no 5% bs) by your own admission without support... This is not a balance issue so much as massive epic fail on your part. Bad luck also seems to be a factor since your IS2 could've fired up to four times in that time if he wasn't circle strafing you, and they're extremely powerful against infantry. Just because it's a heavy tank doesn't mean you park it there and let schrecks wail on it; you still have to kite, which is incredibly easy when you take into account the IS2 moves like a medium tank.

[Paciat]

I lost my IS-2 to a standard Panzer  the Panzer could shoot faster thus getting more damage in and none was absorbed because it (as I said before) went for point blank rear. Another irritant was when my IS-2 (at around 55% health) was taken out by a single grenadier, point blank with a panzershreck( not single Squad, SINGLE soldier 0.o .I had no Anti infantry units in the area)

IS-2 can be destroyed by PzIV and Panthers can be destroyed by Cromwells. If youre micro is bad it can happen.

A terror doctrine single surviver has large acc(*1,6), received dmg(*0,81), reload(*0,75),  cooldown(*0,19!) and anti-suppression bonuses. Every allied fraction should be aware of the 1 terror shreck danger.
http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/wehrmacht/abilities/zeal.html
That single man was left on the field wisely. Youre oponent known about those bonuses.

[Versedhorison]

the stuff on that link is old. A Konigstiger does not cost 980 MP and firestorm does not cost 200 ammo, just to name a few errors.

[bSword]

Apparently the IS-2 was more of an anti-infantry tank from what I have read on wikipedia and its gun wasn't really built for taking out big tanks, it was more for breaking through enemy defenses.  Not sure if that is how it is modeled in the game. 

[Versedhorison]

sort of. the tiger, panther, konigstiger and most of the german tank hunters gun's had better armor penetration than the 122mm gun on the IS2

[hgghg4]

yeah ubt because of the size of the HE round the IS-2 carried it literally shattered the armor

[Versedhorison]

Maybe with the panther or the tiger I but it had to come into close range to deal with jagdpanthers and Konigstigers