2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

So. Thx Rokossovski.
Have change/add this and 1, 2 other things 

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Enough will be blue grenadiers.

Has read that ask, laughed. Too much! Enough easy technics which was at fascist Italy.

Sry. But i dont understand this post oO

[Rokossovski]

In witch way will Fallschirmjäger be called in ? infiltrate buildings or will they "fall from heaven" ?

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

No airdrop because their was no "hugh" airbornlanding at the eastern front. The 7. Flieger-Division was used like an Infantry-Division, but the Fallschirmjäger showed better battleperformence then normal Infantry.

[Bauer]

Enough will be blue grenadiers.

Has read that ask, laughed. Too much! Enough easy technics which was at fascist Italy.

Go play your EF wersion 1.00

Romely your ostherr is great. KT or Elefant when i lost it i can call new?

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Stronger or weaker is a thing of balancing
But you can see this on "paper"; u had to proof
it ingame 

[Nubrannosaurus]

I like your concepts for the most part, Rommel, but your doctrines are pretty lackluster.  I like critiquing and designing doctrines the most when it comes to faction brainstorming, so I'll focus my review on how well you designed your doctrines.  I'll go through all of them critiquing the aspects of an idea concerning it's usefulness and uniqueness. 

Heeresunterstützungsverbände ( Army support troops )
7. Flieger-Division: It works, although they are already part of the PE.  It's hard to design new units when there are so little to choose from.  "Fanaticism!" is the same thing as Zeal for the Terror doctrine.  "Sprint" is very similar to Fire-up, but again, not much you can do as a creator when you need an ability to deter suppression.  That being said, is it really necessary for this unit to have an ability to be immune to pinning?

Luftversorgung ( Airsupport ): Pretty boring as it's the exact same ability as "Supply Drop" that the American Airborne Company Commander receives.  This should be changed to something more unique.

- StuKa Einsatz ( StuKa Attack ): Not a bad idea, but this could use some more explanation.  Is it like the Henschel PanzerKnacker Support ability, where multiple planes fly in a targeted area and attack all units in the reticle?  Or do the Stukas attack units all over the map?  If it's the latter, I dislike this ability because there are no abilities in the game where you click a single button and every enemy unit is attacked -- there's always the skill of aiming and running the course of luck.

- prioritized Support: Is there a drawback?  Is it all resources?  It's kinda boring but it works.

- prioritized weapons: It works, but again this is pretty boring.

- sHeeresPzAbtl 503 "Feldherrnhalle": I like Tigers and I like the "Fear" and "Terror" abilities for this unit. 

Overall Thoughts On Heeresunterstützungsverbände ( Army support troops )
Some of the ideas you presented are decent and some are good, but a couple of them are lacking uniqueness or usefulness.  The three abilities I dislike are Luftversorgung, prioritized support, and prioritized weapons.  I dislike Luftversorgung because it's the same thing as "Supply Drop."  If you want an ability that gives supplies, try and develop a more unique way of doing this.

Prioritized Support and Prioritized Weapons are both useful abilities, but they are just so boring for gameplay.  Yes, we can see why they would be good, but they aren't very exciting.  In execution, they are both similar to Resource Blitz for the Blitzkrieg doctrine for Wehrmacht; not only is Resource Blitz an underused ability, but how would players feel if they had two abilities like that for the Blitzkrieg doctrine?  I feel your Luftversorgung doctrine could either replace Prioritized Support or Prioritized Weapons or both.


Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops)


- „Horrido, Hurra!“: Same thing as Red Tide.  Should be replaced for the sake of variety and uniqueness.

- Grenadiere "Großdeutschland": I like the theme and abilities, but I'm noticing you're taking preexisting doctrine-specific abilities and placing them on your call-in units (such as Grenade Shower, which is the Assault Grenadier ability for Blitzkrieg doctrine and your above Fanaticism! for the Flieger-Division).  I kinda like it because it's a unique twist of using preexisting abilities since it's only using them for your elite call-in units.


- Panzerartillerie "Großdeutschland":  Good and I like it.

- Panzervernichtungsschlacht: It's good and a nice way of making your faction represent training that excels in combating enemy armor.  Nice flavor, uniqueness, and usefulness.

- Minenschlacht! ( Minebattle! ):  Not quite sure how I feel about this.  It's okay to use some preexisting abilities, but it seems like you're pushing it now.  This is the same ability as Teller Mines for the Tank Destroyer Tactics for PE, but also with the addition of the anti-infantry mines.  It just seems overkill.  UNLESS, are anti-infantry mines just the regular mines that engineers and pioneers can place?  Or are they something different and more powerful against infantry?  If they're regular mines, then this ability is okay, except for it's the same thing as the doctrine-specific Teller Mine ability.

- sHeeresPzJgAbtl 654: I like it.  Elefant is awesome.

Overall Thoughts for Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops)
I like the doctrine for the most part, it’s not perfect, but some abilities need to be reaplced.  “Horrido, Hurra!” should be replaced, and the “Mine Battle” is a bit redundant.  As you may have noticed, I like ideas that are mechanically different and unique.  When Relic created the PE and British, they did quite a good job at avoiding the use of preexisting ideas.  That’s why I think the Ostheer should do the same thing.

Festungsverbände ( Fortress troops )

- Festungsbau: Cool, I like it.  Hopefully the faction dynamic, the way the faction is played in battle (British are defensive, PE are offensive, etc), isn’t upset by this increase in defense.  Other than that, it’s good.

- Festungskampf ( Fortification battle ): I like this ability a lot.  Thematically cool and mechanically useful and unique.

- 10.5cm leFh 18/40: Good.  Who doesn’t like 105 artillery?

- Stadtkampf ( Towncombat ): I like it, I had an idea almost exactly like this.  Useful and unqiue.

- Durchbruch! ( Breakthrough! ):  Not bad, it’s a lot like “Blitzkrieg Assault!” for the Wehrmacht except a little different.  Now quite sure why your defensive-related faction should receive this type of offensive ability.

- Der Gigant! ( the Giant! ): Eh, least liked ability in this doctrine.  Again, why would a doctrine based on defense receive this type of offensive ability?  It seems out of place.

Overall Thoughts On Festungsverbände ( Fortress troops )
This doctrine has some cool abilities, but there seems to be a conflict of defense and offense.  This is a mostly defense-related doctrine, so I’m not sure why this doctrine should receive offensive-related abilities like Der Gigant! And Breakthrough!  It’s as if giving “Blitzkrieg Assault!” for the Defensive Doctrine for the Wehrmacht. 


So, those are my thoughts for all 3 of your doctrines.  I hope you don’t take it personally as I’m providing a genuine critique and I only want the Ostheer to be the best they can be.  Viel Glück mein deutscher Freund!


 

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Thanks for this analyses.

About the Heeresunterstützungsverbände:
Its a mix of Luftwaffen-Ideas and Tank-ambush.
My problem was that airforce is relay problematic
in coh. Either you call in all the attacking runs or
you call a airattack which dominate a hole sector.
Dont know which new ways could be used for the
airforce and so i picked up some old ideas and tried
to give them a new sense So other problem was
the Tank-side; in fact King Tiger is a monster on
battlefield so i had to find ideas which could support
this tank side and dont make it much stronger

I think about all this doctrines but at the moment
i cant finde better ideas ^^

About the Heereseliteverbände:
Horrido Hurra was an old idea from me
That was not my first concept and so i picked
this old idea and put it in here. That red army use
such an idea too is a problem but i had found
an idea to replace or change the "horrdio hurra"
ability.

About the mines: that should be a combination of
normal mines and special mines. It should destroy
infantry AND tanks

About the Festungsverbände:
The idea of "offensive" units and gameplay was
born out of the fact that the Wehrmacht tried often
to break open pockets or surrounded fortresses and
so here you could use it in a offensive way

But thanks a lot for your comments.
I will rework the doctrines but at the moment
i'm searching for ideas 


 

[Strategos101]

Hi
Just read through the Ostheer suggestion and i think it is great.
Just one suggestion perhaps Tiger I's... I think the Eastern Front without Tigers is unimaginable  They played a huge part in the Wehrmachts plans, and were very effective (if you disregard all the mechanical failures etc.) in German strategy and of course when they arrived they caused a lot of fear in the Red Army and were present throughout the war in the East (more or less) and played an active role in the majority of conflicts, i.e Kursk then the splinter action at Prokhorovka, at Leningrad etc. Obviously you can easily ignore this but this is just what i think ^^

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Yes. Tiger I is important but how to implement?
To build? Call in unit?

My problem is when u make Tiger I to built then Tiger I of the old Wehrmachtdoctrins is quiet suspect. When Tiger I is a call in unit it will be like the old Wehrmacht.
So; were can i find the agreement between this?

Perhaps link Tiger I as unit to build when u chose the Heeresunterstützungsverbände or replace King Tiger with Tiger I??? I dont know

[Strategos101]

Yeah true that poses a problem, but i would say perhaps replace the King Tiger with the Tiger I as Tiger I's played a larger role, you could maybe make it like the Tiger Ace like they used to have but one that could be given veterancy to try improve it's abilities in comparison to the Tiger II, and this as a call in unit, just make the price 1000mp?

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Sry. I will not think about price and costs of my abilities Thats one of those balancing things which had to be tested in a alpha version of such a concept

Info: I had made two significant changes at the doctrin of the Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops).

[Venoxxis]

Nice idea rommel! 
kinda like it!

The Ostheer without a Tiger is just not imageable. But it should be limited to 2 at the same time. because its still a tiger, and no other german faction can built tigers.. thats the only problem  would make the Ostheer the most powerfull faction about tanks - by far if it doesnt get fixxed.

[Rokossovski]

why are there not late ausf. like Panzer III with 7,5-cm-KwK L/24?
or why a panther ausf. A ? why not a G or F ausf. ?

[Bauer]

Tigers may have to be manufactured in standard and panthers can be called. That would be new.