Russian MOtars Op

[Surihtanil]

The mortar is overpowered it hits like artillery and its pretty damn accurate.  Not that it needs to be inaccurate but it needs to do alot less damage, dunno what you guys were thinking about when you sent the mortars into the game live with that damage.

On defensive maps my base lasts about 1-2mins because of the OP strength of the mortar teams.

[Artillerist]

..The mortar is overpowered it hits like artillery and its pretty damn accurate....

1. Do You ever saw a blasts of 3,5kg shell of 81mm mortar and 16kg shell of 120mm mortar to compare it with "artillery"? Blast of 120mm HE shell is almost near as huge as blast of 152mm Howitzer shell.

2. So, I must shot all aimers from my mortars in my last game, because they were an accurate as blindmen.

[Surihtanil]

Either way Russian artillery is over powered in the game and this isn't real life, it needs balancing.

[indu]

..The mortar is overpowered it hits like artillery and its pretty damn accurate....

1. Do You ever saw a blasts of 3,5kg shell of 81mm mortar and 16kg shell of 120mm mortar to compare it with "artillery"? Blast of 120mm HE shell is almost near as huge as blast of 152mm Howitzer shell.

Do you know ?
Shell size is 1 thing. But the impact speed is more important !

[seq13]

yeah they're op, just try to capture them ;]

[Artillerist]

..The mortar is overpowered it hits like artillery and its pretty damn accurate....

1. Do You ever saw a blasts of 3,5kg shell of 81mm mortar and 16kg shell of 120mm mortar to compare it with "artillery"? Blast of 120mm HE shell is almost near as huge as blast of 152mm Howitzer shell.

Do you know ?
Shell size is 1 thing. But the impact speed is more important !

Is not important at all We are talkig about MORTAR SHELLS, dont You remember? Shell is not flying, it is falling almost vertically from the sky. It never hit directly to soldier, but blast near them and hit very wide area with splinters...

[doomlord52]

doomlord - I served in artillery, and very familiar directly with this PM-38 (now it calls PM-120 or 2B11 120mm mortar)

It is possible, and NOT HARD to fire and HIT THE MOVING TARGET with indirect fire (with mortars is in really it calles HALF-INDIRECT FIRE). It is just need to recognise a speed of moving target, thats all

And, sorry - but PUMA is not a Tiger armored, andits armor is not a problem to smash with even near miss of 16kg shell.

Yes, but do you think you could kill an APC, WHILE its shooting at you, with a mortar? I have no problem that a mortar can kill vehichles, as the wehr mortar has killed M8s before, but it pretty much instantly looses if the M8 gets some shots at it.

[dmastri]

I don't want to burst anyones bubble, but no serious CoH player gives two shits about historical accuracy in comparison to GAME BALANCE.  This thing is completely OP, especially when spammed.

To be honest, I don't see how it can be balanced in and I'm in favor of removing it completely and replacing it with  a light or medium mortar to be in line with what other factions get.

If you must insist on keeping this in the game, for the love of god change the model to show what it truly is:  a 600lb wheeled artillery piece.  There's no way it should fire so fast nor move so fast.

I wasn't familiar with this mod at all before the release the other day.  Were their any prerequisites for the beta testers?  As in, must be X rank to prove you have proficiency in the game?  Honestly, this type of requirement should exist in here.  This forum is already overflowing with useless noob posts advocating terrible balance decisions.

[indu]

anyway if you want  realistic game then you should make Finnland 4 coh too ?


newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War [nonactive]

[Artillerist]

doomlord52

Agree.

dmastri
***If you must insist on keeping this in the game, for the love of god change the model to show what it truly is:  a 600lb wheeled artillery piece.  There's no way it should fire so fast nor move so fast.***

Thats what I was talking about!

[Surihtanil]

I think a few things are over powered that the Russians have for the most part they can be beat in 1v1 but its tough.  My most concern is the mortars because I enjoy playing smaller maps and the Russians mortar teams destroy my base and everything else before I can even do anything.

They can keep them in the game just tone down how much damage they do verse buildings, tanks & infantry. 

[508PIR]

I liked, how it is made in game. Long to replace/prepare for shooting, but dreadly powerfull against enemy soldiers

and fortifications. Had a exellent range, and average (or even bad) accuracy (german infantry pack usually hit only by 3rd-4th shot).

Modellers - it need to add original model, because You use now a model of german GrW34? I was amazed, when saw a crew member, who pick up a 250 kg!!! mortar only with 1 hand!!! and run like rabbit

For whinners, who cry about overpowerness:

It is Strategy video game, but it supposed to be WW II RTS! Dont forget about it, when You are talking only about balance.

As You could see, PM-38 (DAMNED IT IS NOT M1938!!!) is UNDERMODELLED, because it has very bad accuracy in game.

Compare to Ordnance ML 3-inch mortar,81.2mm (UK)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 51kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 2,560m)
-PM-38 has much heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 3.5kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 20 rpm)

Compare to GrW 34, 81,4 mm (Germany)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 62kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 3.5 kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 15-25 rpm)
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 2,400m)

M2 Infantry Mortar, 60mm (US)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 19kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 1.33 kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 18 rpm)
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 1,815m)

Compare to M1 mortar, 81mm (USA)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 61.5 kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 3kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 18-30 rpm)
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 3,000m)

Compare to M2 4.2-Inch Mortar, 107mm (USA)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 151kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has BETTER rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 5 rpm)
-PM-38 has wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 4,050m)
-PM-38 has heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 11kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.

Compare to GrW 42, 120mm (Germany)
It was a 100% full copy of PM-38, and had all the same. But Appeared, when Soviet army already had  PM-43 improved

mortar.

Do you mean this PM-38 mortar?  newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PM-38 [nonactive]

Because if so, you are completely wrong on everything you are saying about it.

[rax_7]

o man, mortar are overpower man. its like a Hummel, blows everything. and it has 5 people in a squad.

[seq13]

You're going in the wrong directions, yes you should made the weapons kind of a historical accurate but the gameplay and balance should be your priority.

About capture the mortar... well I was chasing it around the outpost with mp40 volks and 1 conscripts squad was inside and they can reinforce the crew faster than I was able to kill them lol

[moonblood]

gameplay>realism

please keep such realism discussions out of balancing discussions

russin mortar fireing rate should be reduced and maybe its range too