Russian MOtars Op

[Capt. Malashenko]

I don`t understand why changing Soviet mortars? Yes they are little overpowered but if you didn`t noticed, Soviets don`t have MG`s, retreat, they can`t secure OP points... they have to rely on something !?
Support Barracks are not cheap, so any German player can deploy fast moving units like Sdkfz 222 or 223 or 251 Halftrack before mortar even get`s a chance to enter battlefield.
Easy way to destroy a mortar are Motorcycles, Snipers and  light vehicles.
Honestly... mortar is one of few units (if not the only one) that are effective against Germans. If you nerf that, what`s left?

Edit: I just recorded a replay with my friend, Soviets spammed mortars but to no avail, so don`t tell me mortars or Soviet`s are OP.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IG7G7ZTF [nofollow]

[Whatchmacallit]

The accuracy compared to conventional mortars is quite frankly awful, and as mentioned earlier the low survivability of Russian infantry makes for a lot of friendly casualties.

However, the fire rate might be a bit too high considering it's sheer damage output.

[bastex]

kill the crew capture it and russians die fast !

[Iglooman]

It is not op, it is very easy to counter (ht mortar, mortar) because it has not a high range

[luz777]

I think he means the accuracy, if it were up to me I'd lower the accuracy and make them a little more expensive.

[firefree]

the Russian mortars are very powerful, HOWEVER, if you play as PE you can easily counter by rushing the hordes of russian troops with your superior infantry. I would just rush the mortar.

[Polybegon]

i think it would be more balanced if they increased the cost, or made you unlock them...

[Saavedra]

the Russian mortars are very powerful, HOWEVER, if you play as PE you can easily counter by rushing the hordes of russian troops with your superior infantry. I would just rush the mortar.

Brotip: Do NOT leave PE squads immobile ANYWHERE near a Russian mortar. A single hit will obliterate a perfectly healthy Panzer Grenadier squad.

Rushing the mortars is the best choice indeed.

[Capt. Malashenko]

I bet before this day ends Russian will be "under/powered"   

[PzKampfwagenkanone]

All german artilly is much better against the sowjets than against other Allies cause of the none retread they get the full load of the german artillery. So it is just fair to give the sowjets cheap artillery. And thats only one point u guys mentionet so many I just wanted to add that. yeah and it forces to micro cause u have to splitt your forces or your army get killed by one shoot^^ also operationla reserve could be great for manage/handle them... Its an improvement for the game

[dmastri]

Did anyone else notice the mortar has no minimum distance to fire?  It can literally drop shells on top of itself.

Also, it's incredibly overpowered.  Nerf it all around...decrease rate of fire, decrease damage, increase spread.

[GermanSteel]

Hit a wehr/us sniper with anything and 340 mp down the drain... doesn't really makes sense what you say

Are you seriously trying to compare a sniper's survivability with a mortar's and then tell me I'M the one not making sense?

The sniper has cloak, the sniper can retreat, and the sniper can move regularly. The soviet mortar stays in place while firing, cannot avoid a threat, is fully visible, gives itself away from outside of LoS, as it fires... etc.

[Artillerist]

I liked, how it is made in game. Long to replace/prepare for shooting, but dreadly powerfull against enemy soldiers

and fortifications. Had a exellent range, and average (or even bad) accuracy (german infantry pack usually hit only by 3rd-4th shot).

Modellers - it need to add original model, because You use now a model of german GrW34? I was amazed, when saw a crew member, who pick up a 250 kg!!! mortar only with 1 hand!!! and run like rabbit

For whinners, who cry about overpowerness:

It is Strategy video game, but it supposed to be WW II RTS! Dont forget about it, when You are talking only about balance.

As You could see, PM-38 (DAMNED IT IS NOT M1938!!!) is UNDERMODELLED, because it has very bad accuracy in game.

Compare to Ordnance ML 3-inch mortar,81.2mm (UK)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 51kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 2,560m)
-PM-38 has much heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 3.5kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 20 rpm)

Compare to GrW 34, 81,4 mm (Germany)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 62kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 3.5 kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 15-25 rpm)
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 2,400m)

M2 Infantry Mortar, 60mm (US)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 19kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 1.33 kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 18 rpm)
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 1,815m)

Compare to M1 mortar, 81mm (USA)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 61.5 kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has MUCH heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 3kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.
-PM-38 has lower rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 18-30 rpm)
-PM-38 has MUCH wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 3,000m)

Compare to M2 4.2-Inch Mortar, 107mm (USA)
-PM-38 is MUCH heavier (235kg vs 151kg), and because of this longer reload and prepare-for-shooting time.
-PM-38 has BETTER rate of fire (10-15 rpm vs 5 rpm)
-PM-38 has wider maximum range of fire (6,000m vs 4,050m)
-PM-38 has heavier and deadly HE shell (16kg vs 11kg), anti-personnel effecy was dreadly powerfull.

Compare to GrW 42, 120mm (Germany)
It was a 100% full copy of PM-38, and had all the same. But Appeared, when Soviet army already had  PM-43 improved

mortar.

[doomlord52]

The russian mortar at the current version is insane. If you can get it to fire in the correct place, THEY ARE HARD COUNTERS TO PUMAS

Im sorry, but WHAT!? How is an indirect fire unit a HARD counter to anything. Especially a mortar that hard counters an armored scout car...

As Zers was saying, it would be totally fine for this to be an exmplacement or something along those lines, but it makes NO sense. For this kind of damage to exist, it NEEDS to have insane movement penatlies, if any movement at all.

[Artillerist]

doomlord - I served in artillery, and very familiar directly with this PM-38 (now it calls PM-120 or 2B11 120mm mortar)

It is possible, and NOT HARD to fire and HIT THE MOVING TARGET with indirect fire (with mortars is in really it calles HALF-INDIRECT FIRE). It is just need to recognise a speed of moving target, thats all

And, sorry - but PUMA is not a Tiger armored, andits armor is not a problem to smash with even near miss of 16kg shell.

Trust me, I saw a results of firing to armored vechicles by my own eyes.

Also, it must have 2-wheels devise for move, wich is extremly simple to handle and use only with cre of 3 (not 5!!!) men. The time between "moving-on-wheels" and "ready-to-fire" is 30 seconds!!!!!!!!
Post Merge: January 22, 2010, 11:14:01 PMTo DEVS:

I have a full documentation about PM-38, scale drawings, original service manuals e.t.c.

If You want them for a ingame model of PM-38 in game - sent me a PM and I'll sent You them by email. Of cource free

Cheers!