Soviet Over Powered?

[luz777]

A replay proves absolutely nothing, the Soviet player could be lesser skilled or higher skilled. For you to think that means you don't know much about balancing, which is quite depressing.

Cut them some slack yeah?

Its only just out the door and theres two bunches of people bitching about the exact opposite thing? What do you expect them to do eh?

It'll get worked on and balanced out over the next couple of months, and I'm sure they know more about balancing than most of us here, hence why they're making the mod and we arent 

[GermanSteel]

@Sav

I do indeed spam Ingenery, because of Urban Fighting combined with being able to WSC start. I do not much like Conscripts, I find that Ingenery can hold their own in a fight even without trenches. Either way you get four rifles for 200mp and while the Conscripts may have twice the men for increased survivability, you also have to consider that each of those 8 men is very low on hp. Throw in the 50mu flammenwerfers, faster time to get set up (straight from HQ instead of building rax), and the ability to have a WSC earlier, and it's my preferred strat.

Its only just out the door and theres two bunches of people bitching about the exact opposite thing? What do you expect them to do eh?

The EXTREMELY obvious thing to do is NOT RELEASE A PATCH THE FIRST FREAKIN DAY AFTER IT COMES OUT!

[yondaime604]

Nobody is bitching, this is a thread for them to fix things.

Would you rather this thread get 0 responses and just let things go as it pleases?.

I could stop posting I don't mind, im just trying 2 help.

And I have complemented this mod 100 times now, its been fantastic, the few problems they have can be fixed easily, considering they nailed the talent tree portion is the best part.

[BurroDiablo]

A replay proves absolutely nothing, the Soviet player could be lesser skilled or higher skilled. For you to think that means you don't know much about balancing, which is quite depressing.

Replays prove nothing? Sure, giving me a C&C replay would prove fuck all about CoH, but a CoH replay can still prove something balance wise. Anyway, I don't do balancing... as I said, I'm intrigued to see WHY Yondaime thinks the Soviets are underpowered in a sea of people that are complaining that they are the most overpowered shit since time began. He could be a good player, he could have shit opponents... even that is balance proof enough since it proves that the Soviets aren't underpowered, the Soviets player was just a tard.

[GermanSteel]

I'm intrigued to see WHY Yondaime thinks the Soviets are underpowered in a sea of people that are complaining that they are the most overpowered shit since time began.

It's because he's not a noob like the sea of people you are mentioning are. You have to consider that you are listening to the masses. The masses are basic match players, who do 3v3/4v4 annihilate high resources, have bad micro, blob, etc.

So your sea of people are a bunch of noobs. And if you guys want to balance around noobs, have fun with doing that.

And again, I'm going to say that a replay proves nothing. I could go take every replay I have of me winning Wehr vs US, but none of the ones of me losing, and post that. Does that make US underpowered? No.

[luz777]

Like being elitist much? 

But yeah, from playing tonight they do seem to start off strong and then get increasingly hammered as time goes on.

Wasn't the idea with the Soviets that they were weak to begin with and then steamroll the opponent in the end? I'm sure thats what Apex said in the shoutcast.

Up to you guys, but dont do anything too hasty 

[yondaime604]

A replay proves absolutely nothing, the Soviet player could be lesser skilled or higher skilled. For you to think that means you don't know much about balancing, which is quite depressing.

Replays prove nothing? Sure, giving me a C&C replay would prove fuck all about CoH, but a CoH replay can still prove something balance wise. Anyway, I don't do balancing... as I said, I'm intrigued to see WHY Yondaime thinks the Soviets are underpowered in a sea of people that are complaining that they are the most overpowered shit since time began. He could be a good player, he could have shit opponents... even that is balance proof enough since it proves that the Soviets aren't underpowered, the Soviets player was just a tard.

Dude I just want to help, if your calling me out for something for no reason go nuts.

Like I said, I have explained multiple times why I think they are underpowered.

Maybe if everybody bitches about it being OP and i say its UP, Maybe its actually balanced.

I am done posting here, I feel like I am getting targeted now.

[ViserExciser]

stop bitching really you guys did a great job i disagree with the start resources suffering but the tanks really just need better accuracy and less fuel cost. Really that is all it and the armory needs a buff, as in the upgrades should cost less so they can tech far.

As for German Steel stop being such a dick to the developers they did a fine job, like they said. "FIRST run of the game is always shaky, they will get it more sorted out then relic i can tell you."

[ebevan91]

Honestly I think the ones that are complaining about them being OP are the Axis fanboys.

I'm sure the devs did testing with and between all factions before releasing this.

[luz777]

stop bitching really you guys did a great job i disagree with the start resources suffering but the tanks really just need better accuracy and less fuel cost. Really that is all it and the armory needs a buff, as in the upgrades should cost less so they can tech far.

As for German Steel stop being such a dick to the developers they did a fine job, like they said. "FIRST run of the game is always shaky, they will get it more sorted out then relic i can tell you."

Pretty much my thoughts exactly, late game it just becomes too hard to counter all the axis armour, especially once its vetted.

[BurroDiablo]

No, I'm not targeting you... I prefer the change to people saying that we've overpowered them. We're getting a lot of Axis players complaining about the Soviets just overwhelming them and I want to see, from a good Wehr players perspective, if its either because A. The Soviets are genuinely overpowered or B. That the people complaining about balance are just annoyed because they are poor players.

It's because he's not a noob like the sea of people you are mentioning are. You have to consider that you are listening to the masses. The masses are basic match players, who do 3v3/4v4 annihilate high resources, have bad micro, blob, etc.

So your sea of people are a bunch of noobs. And if you guys want to balance around noobs, have fun with doing that

Those are some nice assumptions. You'll find we're having experienced players complaining about balance also.

I could go take every replay I have of me winning Wehr vs US, but none of the ones of me losing, and post that. Does that make US underpowered? No.

If one of those replays showed you rolling over the other player like a tide and winning the game in 55 seconds... then yes, yes it would.

[taint]

THE PAKS THEY DO NOTHING

[GermanSteel]

If one of those replays showed you rolling over the other player like a tide and winning the game in 55 seconds... then yes, yes it would.

So what you're saying is if I go run a game for you real quick against a noob and win in a very short amount of time, you'll use that as proof of US being underpowered and/or Wehr being OP?

This mod is destined for failure.

Insert Quote
No, I'm not targeting you... I prefer the change to people saying that we've overpowered them. We're getting a lot of Axis players complaining about the Soviets just overwhelming them and I want to see, from a good Wehr players perspective, if its either because A. The Soviets are genuinely overpowered or B. That the people complaining about balance are just annoyed because they are poor players.

It's B. And I guarantee you that any GOOD player you can find isn't going to seriously complain about balance on the first day like this.

I guess I will be playing all day, until you guys destroy the mod by nerfing the Soviets as soon as the fucking mod is released.

It would be cool if this was moddable, ala a real expansion. I would make a mod for good players in a heartbeat and in the meantime you could cater to the 4v4 annihilate high resource camp spam blob players.

[Saavedra]

We're getting a lot of Axis players complaining about the Soviets just overwhelming them and I want to see, from a good Wehr players perspective, if its either because A. The Soviets are genuinely overpowered or B. That the people complaining about balance are just annoyed because they are poor players.

Or C. People are applying the wrong strategy to defeat them because they don´t quite understand how the Sovs interact with the other factions.

So what you're saying is if I go run a game for you real quick against a noob and win in a very short amount of time, you'll use that as proof of US being underpowered and/or Wehr being OP?

This mod is destined for failure.

Ok, there is being a critic, but this is being a jackass. Kindly refrain from writing such insulting comments.


As for replays, the devs want balance discussion. They need empyrical evidence to support balance discussion. This empyrical evidence is acquired through replays. And since the devs designed the mod, the replays talk to them in a different manner, since they are more familiarized with how the mod works.

Replays are a nice tool for balance discussion as long as those watching them know the little details.

[GermanSteel]

On the contrary, replays are a nigh-useless tool for balance discussion because of differences in player skill, which a balance discussion typically disregards by talking about the metagame.