Quote from: spanishfly on February 12, 2010, 04:36:16 PMThat would be perfect, nah? It's a shame that Soviets and Germans broke their alliance...they were such a nice couple.Its a shame that Germans and Poles broke that alliance after Poland got a meatloaf from Chechoslovakia. They were such a good couple. BTW Poles asked to Hitler to have military alliance, to attack USSR together.
That would be perfect, nah? It's a shame that Soviets and Germans broke their alliance...they were such a nice couple.
It's a language map not an ethnic map. And it's a huge difference.
For me, even if not 2 but 20 millions of german females were raped to death by our soldiers in 45 - that was not enough to revenge for all that axis done with my country.We left germans theyr lifes AFTER ALL THAT THEY DONE WITH US -
it was good from Hitler to attack Russia and killing all those people, because Russians deserve nothing else like that
Ok, lets calm down.
I dont hate GERMANS.
Yes, I remember that war, wich was started by germans, and I know abiut retreat of russians all the tuime, and I know that the only success was a Brusilov's attack raid just before russian capitulation just before revolution. I dont know about any russian actions in Eastern Prussia, because all Polish lands and Baltic land were occupied by germans extremly soon after war started. And hundreds of officers, originally with german roots, traited russian army, and surrendered with all their regiments.
I am not a communist at all. I know about crimes of communists against my OWN NATION not from propaganda books, but from my grandies. I think, if You in the West will hear about "death-deserve crime" if somebody will JUST stole several grains to feed his family and be shot for it by commisars - You will laugh or wont beleive. But it was truth. Mother of my grandfather, together with 3/4 of his village in southern siberia - died from hunger in late 30'th, because commisars took all the food (some of that food were sold to germany too, in exchange to factory equipment and other technology). People had to boil grass and even boots to eat it, just to survive! Dont tell me what is communism!
"Когда я слышал их (комиссаров) призывы: «За Сталина!», то мне было трудно сдерживать мат. Никто не воевал лично за Сталина! Народ воевал против Гитлера! Люди воевали за свою землю! И мстили за своих убитых братьев, повешенных матерей, расстрелянных детей и изнасилованных жён!"
Soviet attack was totally unwaited to Hitler. He didnt knew about Stalins plans over eastern Poland (very strange for "good allies", isnt it?). Only after two days passed, Stalin and Hitler had a discussion about new border between Germany and USSR. And only on 20th, when Stalin PRESSED Htiler to move new border as Stalin wants (with Brest on Soviet side), border was stated by both leaders. Under soviet press, on sept.20 Hitler ordered to retreat his troops from positions they gained in fight with poles with much blood, and evaquate all tropheys or destroy them not only to be captured by soviets. When after actions ceased, Hitler asked to give him Belostok and Augustov because Germany have lack of wood, and it extremly need with forrested territory, Stalin answerred in the way as "F*ck off, Its now Ukrainian SSR". An "exellent friendlyship", isnt it?
Stalin played his own game, as master of puppets, and Hitler was a puppet in 1939 in front of the RedArmy fiorce.
Excuse me, but i neither understand the russian language nor can i read Cyril
" Battle of Tannenberg"
"Mein Kampf"
why couldn´t Stalin´s army stop the Whermacht until the winter came?
I was playing Men of War: Red Tide, and I saw the registers of Alexander Zorich...Looks like we in west know only a little or nothing about WW2... I mean... majority of people are too retarded by Hollywood and American/British propaganda.Most people dont know much about the participation of USSR in WW2... specially in USA (Americans really think they were the winners of WW2 and defeated Hitler, )
There is some facts that cannot be denied..85% of the nazi army was defeated in USSR.The imense majority of the german army was used to exterminate USSR. (Read Mein Kampf, by Hitler). Hitler was obcecated in destroying USSR and kill every people in.
Im not underestimating the participation of British and Americans (That last fought in 2 front at the same time!) in WW2, you also were Heroes but, lets be honest, WW2 was 70% about HItler x Stalin.
America was waching two of his enemies destroying each other.
All that shit about D day... the war was already over in D day, Stalingrad was before D day, Kursk was before D day...D day has only one objective, prevent the soviets from advancing in europe until Portugal, D day was the first day of cold war.
Ok, thats too much to be discussed and I bet there is a lot of opinios around.One thing is true, the Soviets Defeated Hitler, I say Soviets and not only Russians because there is a lot of other folks who did a big sacrifice in WW2 (25 million people dead in all USSR)
Lets also not forget the Chinese exterminaiton by the Japaneses (16 million death).
Its a pity that there is all that propaganda trying to dirty the image of the Russian leaders and people.Today we are about to play a Game mod created by Germans, Americans, British and other people... thats freedom, and today there is freedom because million of Soviets died in the past fighting for this freedom ,they deserve respect.
Most of that 85% was defeated by the Russian winter combined with Hitler's incompetence as a commander.
The Cold War wasn't on the horizon until 1944/1945.
It wasn't about liberating France and preventing Germany from conquering the British Empire (the only thing standing between Hitler and the United States)? Like I said, the Cold War didn't start until '45.
I guess that's why, when the war was over, the Soviets established dozens of oppressive satellite communist states.
Millions of Soviets certainly died... but it sure wasn't for freedom. It was for two incredibly obvious reasons. They had no choice. They were invaded by Nazi Germany.
Quote from: pnoozi on February 17, 2010, 03:12:01 AMMost of that 85% was defeated by the Russian winter combined with Hitler's incompetence as a commander.Right...I didn't know Russian winters lasted twelve months. Must be those damn commie weather changing machines!
Anyway, saying that the Soviets defeated the Wehrmacht because of weather or Hitler's incompetence is a grossly ignorant statement.
There were thousands of factors that played a role, one of which was the competence and professionalism of the Soviet army. The fact that the RKKA went from a disorganized mess to the world's most powerful army is no accident - it was achieved by beating the top dog at the time - the German army.
QuoteThe Cold War wasn't on the horizon until 1944/1945.How is the Cold War relevant to this discussion? The fact that the Cold War did not start until after the war doesn't exclude the fact that the Western powers wanted the USSR bled to death.
QuoteIt wasn't about liberating France and preventing Germany from conquering the British Empire (the only thing standing between Hitler and the United States)? Like I said, the Cold War didn't start until '45.If the US really wanted to stop Germany from conquering the British Empire then they would have done so when Britain was weakest..in 1939/40/41 not when the war was pretty much over.
QuoteI guess that's why, when the war was over, the Soviets established dozens of oppressive satellite communist states.The Russian Empire and the Soviet Union were attacked twice in a span of two decades by the same people losing over fifty MILLION people. No one, especially Stalin, is going to be dumb enough to let that happen again. It sucks for Eastern Europe but Stalin wasn't going to risk ANOTHER invasion. That is why a buffer zone and satellite states were established. Stalin wasn't even a fan of the international communism idea - that was more Lenin and Trotsky's thing.
QuoteMillions of Soviets certainly died... but it sure wasn't for freedom. It was for two incredibly obvious reasons. They had no choice. They were invaded by Nazi Germany.The Soviets were fighting for existence. I know this is a hard concept for some people to understand (especially in the West, which never had to fight for it) but once you start fighting for your very existence things like communism, Stalin and The Worker's Party go out the window. The Soviets were truly fighting for something of value - just like the Poles, Ukrainians, Belorussians and any other slavic people in Eastern Europe.
In any event, whatever reason the Soviets had for fighting was way more justifiable than the reason Americans had for fighting. Fighting for your very existence is something a simple farmhand will understand. Fighting for "democracy" in Europe is a much more exotic and abstract concept which probably wasn't high on any GI's priority list.
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Topic: Thank you USSR (A little about history) (Read 51050 times)
