Thank you USSR (A little about history)

[Schuultz]

And now, let's contrast that to what non-Russian sources say...

[thebomb]

It's true, the Soviet state was an awful regime. Not only did the psychos in power target the residents of Eastern Europe but they even treated their own people in a horrible way. Kind of sick really, that the heroes of that part of the war, the Soviet soldiers fighting the Germans, fell victim to their own government and were treated so poorly. It's interesting how a group of people can take an idea like communism and warp it into some crazy, genocidal government under the command of a select few.

[UeArtemis]

And now, let's contrast that to what non-Russian sources say...

There is no a disinterested and objective side. There were the Cold War and the World War II. Everyone benefits lie: the USSR, the West. Read all the sources and compare. The West has reason to distort the subject and lie. Not only the Soviet Union has.

[spanishfly]

"There is no a disinterested and objective side. There were the Cold War and the World War II. Everyone benefits lie: the USSR, the West. Read all the sources and compare. The West has reason to distort the subject and lie. Not only the Soviet Union has."

Yep - all those women in Poland and Germany just raped themselves. Also those Ukrainian soldiers who are buried in the forest near my house also commited massive suicide. Damn "western" propaganda

[UeArtemis]

For example, in Nazi Germany abortions were banned. After an arrival of our own and allied forces, many German women made abortions. As a reason for doctors was indicated that they were raped. Abortions for raped were free. Contraceptives were not sold in Nazi Germany, were distributed only among Ostarbeiters. Rapists were described as Chinese or Mongols. It seems that many raped girls did not even see Russian soldiers and do not know how they look. Or the Red Army consisted of only Asians. ^_^

It is an info from an western professor and woman - ATINA GROSSMANN

Girls, use condoms then the RedArmyMan does not come to you.

My formula is simple: if someone says bad things about self - believe. If someone says bad things about someone else - doubt and check.
So I do not trust western tales about hordes of rapists. If Stalin said no rape, will be no rape. Everyone feared Stalin enough.

[spanishfly]

Some time ago you wrote about the "poor Poland" and how Poles are trying to blame everyone for their own problems. Maybe it's true.

But it seems that you're the same if it goes to the Soviet Union. No matter how many examples of crimes we will show you, you always see that as a western propaganda war.

For Russians, and countries close to them the Red Army is a organisation of pure peace, happiness and love. But unfortunately for the most centre-eastern countries - the Red Army is just another aggressor - same as Nazi Germany - and often far more brutal.

The proof lies in the memories of people who remeber those times. If you want to believe that German girls just wanted to get free abortions - so they decided to lie about being raped - ok I don't care.

So I do not trust western tales about hordes rapist. If Stalin said no rape, will be no rape. Everyone feared Stalin enough.

And so we're back to the good old times

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[UeArtemis]

Why have you singled out Stalin? Stalin, of course, is a tyrant. And people prefer long life than short sex.

Do not think that I am a fanatic. Yes, we shot the Polish officers, shot own people, but Communists were not idiots. Read carefully the article. Being brutal to German population were not profitable for us and we suppress any cruelty of our soldiers.

If you think that Stalin ordered to silent cruelty, you're mistaken. We are not afraid of notoriety. We did not want to give to Germans cause to fight to the end. We did not want the resistance of the civilian population and a fear of surrender to us. Do not forget, we had to distribute the idea of communism, and angry people would not accept them.

If you want, you can believe feminists, who say that raped in Berlin were not 20 000 or 100 000, but 2 millions. Russians did not fight, and made love. ^_^ Similar stories exist about Russian Cossacks and Hussars in France after Napoleon.

[spanishfly]

We're not talking about communists being idiots or not. We're talking about if Europe should be thankful to the USSR. And in my opinion - it should not. Because Soviets did not bring freedom to the eastern Europe - but as you said, they brought a new regime.

Russians did not fight, and made love. ^_^

I'm not talking about Russians - I'm talking about Soviets. If it doesn't make a difference for you - that's bad.

You were laughing about asians in Soviet Army. But the truth is that there were HELL A LOT asians in this army. There were so many eastern nations in the Red Army that probably those "less civilised" people from Mongolia etc. were mainly the ones who were raping women in Poland and Germany.

[UeArtemis]

I personally do not ask for thanks to my great-grandfather, who served in the occupation forces in Germany. Just compare what is better: a life ruled by the Nazis when Nazis make gloves from human skin, or life ruled by the Soviet regime, when the shot is not for national identity, but for real ideals and views of man what he chooses.

I laughed about QUANTITY of Asians in one place and their predominance. This character in minds of German girls was circulated by German propaganda - Eastern Hordes of Russians. It sounds as rapists were only Tajiks, Kazakhs and other Central Asian peoples. And where are Russian, Ukrainians and Belarusians?

And let's really talk about the Soviets, distinguish between Russian and other nations. What is the fault of the Soviet regime? They ordered to rape? No. Do you believe that rapists were Asians, as has been said? Well, then blame to the Asian republics and their people, and Slavs are not guilty. But this is silly.

[spanishfly]

Replacing one regime with another is not a freedom. Freedom was brought to the western countries - they could choose their own way.

and where are Russian, Ukrainians and Belarusians?

They were too busy fighting in the Red Army, SS Galizien, UPA, RONA etc. Normal stuff - killing some soldiers, some civilians Burn a villiage or two

[UeArtemis]

In fact, freedom is strange thing. You do not have enough of its usually only when you rebel.

SS Galizien, UPA, RONA etc.
Yes, I admit, it was stupid to fight against all, or to cooperate with the Germans, as well as denying a huge part of own history and exploits of ancestors from the Army Ludowa. Who did liberate Gdansk?

[Schuultz]

It's fascinating how the old War propaganda is still in circulation today.

After all, people still speak about "Liberation" rather than "Conquest", despite it being just that...

[spanishfly]

Who did liberate Gdansk?

Actually Gdańsk WAS a German city. So it's hard to say that it was liberated

[UeArtemis]

I think so too, but thought that Poles have an opposite point of view. Ok, Poles from the First Polish Army captured Danzig. ^_^

[Paciat]

British haven't saw how fascist burn whole villages to the ashes. USA haven't saw how peoples just dies because there is nothing to eat. Only USSR have saw this. Only the USSR fought on their motherland. And that why they are heroes.

Stalin = Hitler. That was most powerful propaganda ever. Clear your minds from cold war information.
My grandmother have lived in USSR. And when she talks with me - she never complaint about their life. "Life in USSR was great" - she says. And my mother thinks so too. So where is the problem? My relatives and relatives of my friends have never complaint about communism.
P.S I can give you a link, but it's on russian.
http://historic.ru/books/item/f00/s00/z0000074/st032.shtml
There is lot of intersting things. With links on sources.

http://czolg.blox.pl/2009/02/Mark-Solonin-22-czerwca-1941-czyli-jak-zaczela.html
Heres a link to a book that is in Polish (translated from Russian) "22 june 1941 - how the great patriotic war started".
Its about the first 3 months of axis-USRR fighting.
It explanes why russians lost (surrendered or deserted) more
man and equipment than all allied armies in France in 1940.
Sołomin sais that soviets dindnt want to fight for Stalin becouse of what happened in the early 30s (backing it up with 500 pages of facts).
Millions! of people died in hunger while Stalin exported food outside USRR (to buy technology and build heavy industry).
In 1933 cannibalism was a fact in Ukraine - granary of Europe!
All of that to show the soviets how cruel will the Stalin be to any of his enemies (political or military).

Old people will allways tell you that their life was better when they were young. Even if they had no free speech, there was not enough toilet paper produced and you needed to wait for 5 years to buy a car.
(Im from a post communist state, so I know how it was)