Doctrine suggestions - Ostheer (updated 1st post January 09, 2010)

[Venoxxis]

Hello together,

 
also being interested on a great, individual third German faction, i thought about possible Ostheer doctrines. Writing another whole Ostheer concept wouldnt make sense anymore.

Thats why i just thought about doctrines - doctrins to inspirate later Ostheer concepts. Today i got just one doctrine ready, because its pretty much work, but i will update my first post and give you 2 more doctrine suggestions later on.


Doctrines:


1st Schutzstaffel - Abteilung Ost

The first doctrine of the Ostheer, is focused on elite units. Using the powerfull SchutzStafffel elite units, he has some of the most powerfull soldiers ingame.



Left site:                                                                     

Oil production (2)                                                
For 70 ammo, you will get for                        
2 minutes 25% more oil!         

Panzerjäger Nashorn (2)             
From now on you got the ability            
to build heavy tankhunters            
"Nashorn" in your tank Factory.            
They are equipted with the
fearsome  Flak 88.

Black Tiger Ace (5)                                       
This tiger almost never misses his target         
and is harder to knock than usual tiger tanks.      
Also you have the ability to shoot for
50 ammo for a short period of time the
fearsome "Panzergrante 40". This beast will
knock even the thickest soviet steel monster.
Also, the Tiger Ace can select between a high explosive shell,
against infantry, and armor piercing shells against tanks.
You can call in only one Tiger Ace per game.
Costs: 1000 manpower.

What would be the ostheer without a tiger?




Right site:

Schutzstaffel-elite Soldiers (3)
4 Well armed SS-Soldiers will be   
send to the battlefield from outside
of the map. Costs: 400 manpower.

Schutzstaffel Veterans (2)
All new SS call-in units are now
vetarens.
That makes them:
- harder to kill
- can be equipped with mp 44s. (costs: 70 ammo.)
- can knock tanks with "haftbomben" (costs: 60ammo.)
- cloaked if they dont move

Panzerschreck (1)
SS- troops can now be equipped
with Panzerschrecks for 50 ammo.









2nd Ingenieure der Ostfront

(Ingineers of the eastern front)

The 2nd doctrine of the Ostheer uses the well educated german ingineers to show its superiority.
With this engineers your regular pioneers are abeled to build defensive structures of even the heaviest kind.

Again, i've got a new image for you:




Left Side:

Ingineer Superiority (2)
All buldings which are build under the
observation of the German Dipl. Ing., (look at the right side)
will get several improvements.
->  thicker armor
->  if the buildings got weapons inside,
     they will get a better range.
->  faster construction

Better Observation Posts (2)
From now on your OP's
will give doubled amount
of the normal resources.


Grille Artillerieschlag (3)
Call a heavy artillerie strike from outside of the map.
costs: 150 ammo.



Right Side:

German Diplom Ingineer (1)
Call in a well educated German Dipl. Ing..
This officer-like unit is bad armed, but it gives
you serveral new options, just like a british commander
gives your units leadership. Being close to your
pioneer squads, these will get new building options.
costs: 200 manpower.

poineers will be abled to contruct:

-> sandbags
-> heavy roadblocks
-> Bunker with a MG-42, which can relocate.
-> trenches
-> mines
-> a medic stadion (medics who carry hurt soldiers to the   
    station to set up a new squad.)

Pantherturm (2)
Pioneers with a Dipl. Ing. in their area
are now abled to build a powerfull pantherturm.

Mortal Bunker (3)
A Dipl. Ing. gives your Pioneers the ability to build
a very well armored mortal bunker. Only one bunker
can be build at the same time.
Surrounded units can be restocked.
Also it can be used as a retreating point.
The bunker is well armed as well with its heavy mortal
at the top and an MG-42 in the tower. snipers cant kill these
units.
The bunker can hold 15 man or 4 units.
   
-> it can be upgraded with a "heal-upgrade"
    which heals the surrounded units.




see ya soon,
regards - Venoxxis.

[Ryousan]

EPIC!!!! I LIKE THIS!!!!

Although my vision of an SS doctrine is something a little more  "Sturm and Fear" thing this is awesome.

[Venoxxis]

Thanks, but still, if somebody has any critics
on balancing issues or something like that, just call them out 

if u got better suggestions, i will change my concepts

[rummy]

I like your thinking though do believe they could use a little tweaking

The 25% fuel bonus is way too low, and if it only works on one sector your likely to get as little as 6-8 fuel points at a cost of 50 munitions. Would be best to either triple the fuel from one point or make it 25-50% of ALL fuel points. Even though it is only a transfer of equivalent munitions to fuel, and is really not that much of a bonus/reward to the Ostheer player when compared to all the first few Allied abilities.

I like the concept of a Tiger Ace, but the cost is way too high, I 'd be much better off building two panthers, and the whole point of these CP points are to reward the player. This however seems more like just an alternative unit. If it can only be called in once, how about reducing the price to 700-1000 manpower, if not then lets reward the player by letting it be recalled if destroyed

As for the elite troops, it sounds just like the blitz doctrine stormtroopers for a higher cost but without the cloak ability or Knights cross without the automatic Mp44 upgrade. So perhaps these ones could have something slightly different (especially for their higher cost), like being able to throw a munition free greanade once every minute, or being able to upgrade to a flamethrower, (making them good urban fighters etc)

[Voop_Bakon]

For only 4 posts, rummy seems to know what hes talking about.

He pretty much nailed the problems with your idea on the head. Not saying this is the case, but to me it feels like you didn't much thought or do the math to see how your idea would fit in game. Your going in the right direction, just try and flush out and think through your ideas more.

Keep the ideas coming

[Venoxxis]

Thank you very much guys, really helpfully.
we can create this way really awesome doctrines

I did chance the oil thing, you are totally right about that.

The tiger ace should stay pretty expensive, but i lowered his
costs to 1000. also i added a new ability, to make this tiger really a kick-ass.
The 1000 man power should be ok i guess, because other elite units which are just for one time call-in able cost 500, but you resource income will be halfed for 5min as well!

Thank you for the ss-elite unit tipps as well.
if you still got some suggestions, call them out

regards,
Venoxxis

[Loupblanc]

 Lil detail... should NEVER have more than 1 88mm unit per
 doctrine... Nashorns AND Tiger ace in same doctrine?? NO$#(*
 way
 
 ... Think about it for a second.

[Venoxxis]

i did think about that

The nashorn is more compareable to a geschützwagen
than to a tiger or a king tiger tank.
they had almost the same armour piercing abilities, and both were really very bad armored. so guess it should be okay.

[SavageWorld]

As a rull of tumbs you will always want to have something in the doctrine that costs munition. You do have Oil protection and some unit upgrades and abilities, but noting that realy suck munition. I am not sure if this is a problem, but it is different than most other classic doctrines.
I would consider to make Schutzstaffel Veterans and Panzerschreck one ability and than make another one called fast production which cost some munition but finished all the unit you where about to build or mabey gave all your soliers in a sector some of their HP back over time, for two minutes. Any ability that would make sure that you never sit with munition you can used.

[Loupblanc]

 - Call it Oil PRODUCTION not oil PROTECTION, no?
 - Yea Nashorn is a type of Marder3 (75mm), or Geshutzwagen
 (75mm) but... same armor piercing abilities?? Nash is 88mm
 long barrel ...

 it's like saying 88 flak is same as USA Sherman short barrel
 75mm... no way

[Venoxxis]

did you know that the panther's 75mm gun had better armor piercing abilities than the tiger I's 88?

bigger isnt always better :p

also, the nashorn didnt get the powerfull gun of the king tiger, the 88 KwK L/71. actually, the nashorn did use one of the earliest versions of the pak 43 (flak88). this tank was using pak 43/1.

enough of that now, still thank you for you critics and tipps. i changed the production thing 


About the ammo suck ability.. well, i guess its a good one to see a doctrine which isnt compareable in that way with classic doc's.
This doc will be sucked out of money when giving his powerfull units thier special weapons, maybe its just another way of ammo sucking

Regards

[Scarlon]

Cool ideas.
the one with the ingineer rocks hell! 

[Loupblanc]

 Yea I knew about the Panther's 75mm having better
 penetration capabilities than the Tiger's 88mm

  Surprising,though

[Venoxxis]

alright loup
but take a look at the first post,
what do you think about the 2nd doc.

really would like to hear your feedback

or look here:

2nd Ingenieure der Ostfront

(Ingineers of the eastern front)

The 2nd doctrine of the Ostheer uses the well educated german ingineers to show its superiority.
With this engineers your regular pioneers are abeled to build defensive structures of even the heaviest kind.

Again, i've got a new image for you:




Left Side:

Ingineer Superiority (2)
All buldings which are build under the
observation of the German Dipl. Ing., (look at the right side)
will get several improvements.
->  thicker armor
->  if the buildings got weapons inside,
     they will get a better range.
->  faster construction

Better Observation Posts (2)
From now on your OP's
will give doubled amount
of the normal resources.


Grille Artillerieschlag (3)
Call a heavy artillerie strike from outside of the map.
costs: 150 ammo.



Right Side:

German Diplom Ingineer (1)
Call in a well educated German Dipl. Ing..
This officer-like unit is bad armed, but it gives
you serveral new options, just like a british commander
gives your units leadership. Being close to your
pioneer squads, these will get new building options.
costs: 200 manpower.

poineers will be abled to contruct:

-> sandbags
-> heavy roadblocks
-> Bunker with a MG-42, which can relocate.
-> trenches
-> heavy roadblocks
-> mines
-> a medic stadion (medics who carry hurt soldiers to the   
    station to set up a new squad.)

Pantherturm (2)
Pioneers with a Dipl. Ing. in their area
are now abled to build a powerfull pantherturm.

Mortal Bunker (3)
A Dipl. Ing. gives your Pioneers the ability to build
a very well armored mortal bunker. Only one bunker
can be build at the same time.
Surrounded units can be restocked.
Also it can be used as a retreating point.
The bunker is well armed as well with its heavy mortal
at the top and an MG-42 in the tower. snipers cant kill these
units.
The bunker can hold 15 man or 4 units.
   
-> it can be upgraded with a "heal-upgrade"
    which heals the surrounded units.

[SavageWorld]

I don't like your second doctrie as much. It is to defensive and encourage defensive play.

Mabey if you mixed it up a little, so it was not all about building stuff, but had a single call in unit and an ability that gave somekind of passive bonus. I really like your Mortal bunker, the captains ability to give a second retreat point is not used enough and it is nice to see it used in another army.