Inormation Fail

[BlackDahliaMurder]

Hello dear Eastern Front Forum. 

While reading the armory information table on moddb.com, I've found some errors which I wanted to post here. 
First of all, The SU-85 didn't have "cage armour", this type of armour has not been used during WW2. Cage armour or also called "bar armor, slat armor, and standoff armor" (Heavy or layered armor) was designed AFTER WW2 to protect vehicles against anti tank rocket-propelled grenades, not anti tank rounds used by tank guns (which means the given information is totally wrong).

Cage armor can easily be defeated by APCR and HVAP (High Velocity Armour Piercing) tank rounds mostly used by the 75mm of the Panther or the 88mm KwK from the Tiger. 

In other words: EVEN IF the SU-85 had cage armor (WHICH WAS NOT IN USE DURING WW2!), it could not survive a direct hit by a high velocity AP round. 

By the end of WW2 though (1945), many Russian tanks such as the IS-2, T34, SU-80/100, ISU-152 who have fought in Battle of Berlin, were upgraded with "spaced armour" (by placing a rigid grid around the vehicle) but this kind of armour has already been used before by the German Panzer IV (which was more known as Panzerschürze - tank skirts).

Second, PTRDs could MAXIMUM penetrate only 40mm of vertical armour ( BS-41 ). Which means it was ineffective against all german heavy tanks including Panther, Tiger I, Tiger II, Jagdpanther and Elefant - plus most medium tanks were invulnerable from the front (Panzer IV, Stug III, jagdpanzer IV, Hetzer). They could only be penetrated from the sides/back. 

The Panther had 40mm on the sides, though it was angled at 40°, making it also invulnerable against the PTRD. 

At the end, I found also some grammtical erros...   wrong: "Panther and Tiger tanks has made" - have is correct. also: "This lets them" - false. "This allows them to" would be correct.   

regards, BlackDahliaMurder.

[ford_prefect]

Jesus Christ you do know this is a game and its not even that it's a mod!! They could put Nazi spiders in here if they wanted to! So don't yell about the "cage Armour" 

[thebomb]

I agree with all you have said BlackDahliaMurder except for your issue with the PTRD. While most German tanks were immune to the PTRD's anti-tank round later in the war, I believe the unit is in place due to gameplay reasons. The Soviets need an infantry anti-tank unit and a PTRD squad is therefore in order.

Let's hope the developers address the cage armour inaccuracy and spelling mistakes, though.

[nbeerbower]

So many things I would like to say right now... damn the beta testing agreement.

[ford_prefect]

"I believe the unit is in place due to gameplay reasons." yes that's one of the reasons I like it also the mod "blitzkrieg" implemented the English anti tank rifle into the mod and they were not the best units in game BUT they were able to knock off the tracks of heavy German vehicles like Panzers and King Tigers allowing the weaker the weaker English tanks to flank the tanks with no tracks and destroy them so will this be implemented into the mod?   

[luz777]

That was a nice lecture.
We'll all behave ourselves when it comes to historical and grammatical correctness in the future 

Gameplay has always taken precedent over absolute historical accuracy. If you want detailed AP values and armour stats Men of War would be the game for you.

Cheers

[Ghost]

*according to wikipedia (german version) cage armor was used by the red army in the battle of berlin (picture in the upper right corner), but on t34/85
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4figpanzerung

*its protection against panzerfaust/panzerschreck anti-tank weapons (giving it more chances against infantry), not against tank fire

*ptrd can defeat about 23-40mm armor AT A DISTANCE OF 100m!!! if you get closer to the target its gonna be >40mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRD

*the aim of the mod is not to have something 100% historically perfect, but a balanced game in vanilla style (just look at bergetiger and pershing  ) with new abilites and units (ptrd as at weapons instead of using the bazooka again,...)

[Copernicus]

Well, I've just played a round of CoH:EF and noticed some things which are just totally wrong and unrealistic:

1. In WW2 there was no one giving orders using a mouse.
2. The Russians never captured 'manpower sectors' or anything similar.
3. Terms like 'Main Menu' and 'Balancing' were completely unknown to both Stalin and Hitler but still we're using them. How dare we?

etc....

I hope you got the point by now.
Just one more thing: IMHO we can live with some grammar-mistakes. Take a look at this post here, I'm sure you can find some mistakes as well...

-cope.

[Voop_Bakon]

At the end, I found also some grammtical erros...   wrong: "Panther and Tiger tanks has made" - have is correct. also: "This lets them" - false. "This allows them to" would be correct.   

regards, BlackDahliaMurder.

Skitt's Law: Expressed as "any post correcting an error in another post will contain at least one error itself" or "the likelihood of an error in a post is directly proportional to the embarrassment it will cause the poster."

Lets see, besides information, you also misspelled grammatical and errors.

Back on topic:

gameplay > realism unless realism is your absolute goal, which in this case it is not.

Try this.

[Toxic19813]

At the end, I found also some grammtical erros...   wrong: "Panther and Tiger tanks has made" - have is correct. also: "This lets them" - false. "This allows them to" would be correct.   

regards, BlackDahliaMurder.

Skitt's Law: Expressed as "any post correcting an error in another post will contain at least one error itself" or "the likelihood of an error in a post is directly proportional to the embarrassment it will cause the poster."

Lets see, besides information, you also misspelled grammatical and errors.

Back on topic:

gameplay > realism unless realism is your absolute goal, which in this case it is not.

Try this.

this Is a fun game... I beta tested this once... Although, LIKE company of heroes, very different at the same time.

[ford_prefect]

now why did you say it in such of a well "jack ass" way "Inormation fail" DID YOU MEAN "INFORMATION" use spell check if you want to make fun of others about spelling  

[BlackDahliaMurder]

Sorry for being all known WW2 historian but I just wanted to clarifying some things.

Jesus Christ you do know this is a game

Well, even though it's just a game but it is based on history anyway. You know the second World War? It's the only reason why this game was produced.

They could put Nazi spiders in here if they wanted to!

Great idea, yet all what we need are some invisible Nazi UFOs and history books can be rewritten!

*according to wikipedia (german version) cage armor was used by the red army in the battle of berlin (picture in the upper right corner), but on t34/85

Yes but that was only the adopted version of the German Panzerschürze which was used on the Panzer IV first (see side skirts).

*its protection against panzerfaust/panzerschreck anti-tank weapons (giving it more chances against infantry), not against tank fire

That's actually the same that i said too. It was NOT intended to defeat high velocity anti tank rounds. Armor piercing rounds (used by the Tiger, Panther, Panzer IV) would easily pierce it like butter. On "Mod DB" the inormation says it makes it more resistent against german anti tank weapons, so that's wrong. It was only more or less effective against Shaped charges (used by the bazooka). But it was hopeless ineffective against the Panzerfaust 100 which could penetrate 200mm of pure steel.

*ptrd can defeat about 23-40mm armor AT A DISTANCE OF 100m!!! if you get closer to the target its gonna be >40mm

No it wouldn't. The same penetrating power is given at 300m as well! As you can see, from 100m to 300m it's still the same piercing capability without any difference, which means it would not increase the maximum penetrating power.

[funnyme]

Hi,

All know WW2 is history ,There are Nice lib's for researching the same .COH is but a game so enjoy it .

Any ideas on improving the way we play COH .

Regards
Rishad

[ford_prefect]

"COH is but a game so enjoy it ."
COH is but a game so enjoy it .
COH is but a game so enjoy it .
COH is but a game so enjoy it .
COH is but a game so enjoy it .
COH is but a game so enjoy it .
COH is but a game so enjoy it .


Post Merge: December 29, 2009, 04:51:44 AMalso why did you not mention your "Inormation" fail but just theirs

[Michael Wittman]

Inormation Inormation Inormation Inormation  Inormation Inormation

NoooooooO!