Ostheer proposal n° 02854

[Panzerjager]

Personally I would prefer the Pak 43 but then again that thing would be a real thorn in your side to move around the battlefield unless you have trucks.

[Aouch]

It's not like spamming. It's called a Panzerkampfverband.

 

I think, the vet-system will decrease spamming instead of couraging it. Due to the vet-system, units can only have important upgrades if they survive and win a lot of fights, so the OH-player will more likely concentrate on single tanks and pay all his attention and micro to those important units instead of trying to crush the enemy by pure mass, because Vet 0-units performs pretty poor.

However, I've changed the Pz3 J to a Pz3 with 3.7cm KwK 36.
I know only a small amount of them were actually in service, but now the Pz3 will be more like between a puma and hotchkiss/stuart/T-70.
Seems fair to me.
(Doctrin-Upgrade is now the 7.5cm "Stummel"-cannon for increased AI-capabilities.)


@Panzerjager, there's already the allmighty FlaK "88". And I think it's possible, with a lot of work, of course, to add artillery tractors, this is why they're also in my proposal. 

[Loupblanc]

 LOL! I love that Panzer smilies icon! LOL WTF? Where did
 you get that thing?

 Well, the best way to know, is to playtest it, alas

[Aouch]

LOL! I love that Panzer smilies icon! LOL WTF? Where did
 you get that thing?

Google. 
However, back on topic:
Is it just me, or is there actually too much inf in my concept?
I'm thinking about removing the MG-Trupp (inf-bunkers in Army Group South) and sniper (since soviet inf will most likely come in large numbers, he would be quite useless)...

[Panzerjager]

Yes there is too much inf in your concept, then again you might want to ask someone else since I love my panzers .
Also yea I must agree The Pak 43 is a bit superflous when there is the Flak 36 because it is the same caliber and it can shoot planes.

[Loupblanc]

 Aw but... the sniper wars on the east front...
 It's nice to masturbate on the concepts, but when the
 devs are not even working on Ostheer...

 I know how you feel, though. I got my own pet ideas I
 very much would like to see in the end resulting factions,
 but, alas, I'm not the one making said factions, they are.

[Panzerjager]

This is the reason why the Pak 43 would need a truck to tow

[Polkovnik_Petr]

Slight historical inaccuracy.

The Chetniks never fought against the Russians. In fact, most of them did not even fight for Germany. Chetniks were the Serbian king's army and remained loyal to the kingdom and fought against the Yugoslav partisans only because the Yugo partisans were communists and they feared the fall of their kingdom. Most of the Chetniks fought against the Germans anyway. Saying that the osteer should call in Chetnik partisans against the Russians is like saying that the Wehrmacht could call in French partisans.

In the stead of the Chetniks however, you could put Croatians for they did participate in the war on the eastern front on the side of the Axis.

[Subutai]

I see why you want the Chetniks... A way to counter the Soviet partisans, yes? But it just doesn't make sense - at all. They hated the Germans and fought against them (although the helped them in a couple of anti-communist operations - the Yugo part of WW2 is a frikkin' mess). Is it even necessary for the Ostheer to have a partisan-style unit just to balance them to the Soviets?

Croats would make more sense, as some have already mentioned. Alot of them participated in the war against the Soviet army - some even fought at Stalingrad. I'm not sure about how you could make them unique, though.

Btw, to everyone pointing out how this is the "GERMAN Ostheer" and how the Axis allies aren't worth mentioning; non-german units would add alot of colour and flavour to this faction. And we already have two "pure" German factions... Besides, it's not like some Finnish elite soldiers or one or two non-German tanks would steal the whole show, the majority of units will still be Germans.

[Aouch]

I just named them "Chetniks" cause that was the first thing I found after a very short wiki/google.
They aren't in my concept to counter the soviet partisans, but rather to have a very cheap call-in unit to stop the red tide (conscripts etc.) with their lifes. So they won't survive long time, they're more like a quick response or counter attack unit till the backbone of the Ostheer inf, the Landsers arrive. 

That being said, you can call them whatever you want. For instance, I'll name them "Croatian Volunteers", OK? 


To further explain the three doctrins:

Army Group North is based on the combined warfare with strong infantry. To counter enemy armour, there's the 3-f's (Faust-for-free) and StuKa. If you're short on tanks, call in the armoured support group.
Army Group Centre is of course based on massive tank-action. Three armoured call-ins from Tiger to Elefant garantue the effectniss of your armoured attack!
Army Group South promises superb defensive capabilities to fortify your positions. However, if the enemy breaks through, you can hold back their inf with cheap and fast-to-deploy Croatian Volunteers.

EDIT: I've updated my concept, so please take a short look at it.

[Loupblanc]

 I've said same thing against chetniks
 Croatian volunteers is just about perfect, actually

 - I want finns! for army north!
 - As for Centre Group, well, it's it a bit tank heavy?
 It's got heavier tanks than Wehr-Blitz for ccsakes

[Aouch]

Thanks! I also think Croats are the right thing here.

* Finns actually are already part of Army Group North. 
* AGC is THE tank-doctrin of the Ostheer. However, if you choose that doc, you really have to rely on armour, cause there aren't any inf-specific upgrades or bonus in it.
Blitz is more about, ehm, Blitzkrieg? AGC about heavy tank-combat (think of Kursk etc.)

[Loupblanc]

 Yea, that's fine. As all factions should be, really.
 If you choose something, well, use it, because if you're
 wehr defensive, you won't get any tiger or pershing
 or Callioppe

[Aouch]

If you choose something, well, use it

Exactly.

I've updated the proposal n° 02854 yet another time, so please take a look at it.
Each "Camp" and unit-pool now has 3 units, therefore it won't get too much but still allows an wide variety of possible tactics.
Army Group Centre is now forced to rely on tanks, because the two defensive pools are locked.

I think now my concept is completed, representating the counter-part of the Red Army and at the same time being balanced to the old factions. 

[Loupblanc]

 Oh, hey, I like it lots
 
 Especially, yes, lol. Your uses of self-penalties/limitations
 on own troops (like british initial slow troops, etc). THAT gives flavor and, yea, can be used to 'buy' yummy
abilities. (We're talking balance here). Too many people
 just start with : 'Here's my OP dream team proposal :
 First Axis start with 40 Tigers...'

 Your proposal has improved a lot since beginning
 Looks like it'd be fun to play!