KV 152

[XXXmaxpowerXXX]

So is this tank for bombardment like a hummel or is it like a churchill avre?
Is it heavily armored?

[Voop_Bakon]

Wait, the ISU-152 or the KV-2? Either way, they are both, as far as I know, heavy tanks and not artillery. Correct me if im wrong

[Loupblanc]

 KV1: 76mm
 KV85:85mm
 KV2/KV152 : 152mm

 SU152 : KV1 fitted with STUG/SU/SPG 152mm
 ISU152: IS2 fitted with STUG/SU/SPG 152mm

 Difference between the two is that KV2 has a short
 barrel (thus is more of a Churchill AVRE or StuH42/105mm)
 
 while the ISU152 ...
 a) Is an SPG where the KV2 is a tank
 b) has a long barrel (thus good to eat tanks up)
 c) Can be used for artillery as it can fire 13.5 miles up.
 4) reloads incredibly slow. Managing 2 shots a minute
 and having 13 ammo total. Taking 40 min to reload

 (The ISU152 is a stug that can function ANTI-TANK,
 or artillery) They work in groups of 5 in real life

 I don't know how the COH version is meant to work
 though. But I know the KV2 works like the AVRE/STUH.

 And yes, they are both 152mm
 (The AVRE is 290mm, the StuH is 105mm)

[BurroDiablo]

The KV-2 is like a StuH in the current build, it fires like a Tank, not like Artillery. When we first put it in the game it was more like and AVRE, but someone somewhere changed their mind. Its got resonable armour, but it won't survive without some support because it fires pretty slowly.

[Loupblanc]

 In real life the 290mm AVRE Petard Churchill
 (Petard is french for firecracker) couldn't be reloaded
 internally. People out to go out and MANUALLY reload
 the $#(#$ thing. And the range wasn't so great.
 Made a big bang though

 The ISU152's reload speed is abyssal (2 per minute)
 The IS2's reload speed is shit too (122mm)
 
 Did you make the ISU152 based on the KV or the IS?
 
 - Ok, fine, the KV2 is more of a STUH than an AVRE.
 What is it's reloading speed? (At least it can be reloaded
 internally). The British version of the KV2 is the Bishop
 with it's 25 pounder main gun (ouch!!)
 
 - Is the KV2 all HE or does it fire AP as well?
 (I'll assume he's a slow-ass STUH on steroids)
 

 
 
 
Post Merge: November 07, 2009, 07:24:59 PM Seems I ran out of space?

 - Here's the real question. How does the ISU152
 behave in-game?
 a) Does it have slow-ass reload speed and cataclysmic
 HE firepower.
 b) Real one has BOTH direct-fire and artillery (13 miles)
 capabilities. Will it be able to use both, or will it use only
 one, and if it uses only one, which will it be?

 1) A mobile 88 on wheels (152)
 2) A longer ranged KV2/STUH
 3) A priest/Hummel on steroids.
 4) A king Tiger with a regular/buffed 88

 Thank you

 (Is it a Marder3, a King Tiger, or a Priest?)

[BurroDiablo]

It doesn't have HE firepower or artillery capabilities since its strong enough, we've made it solely a Tank killer so its more like a Jagdpanther. The KV-2 is where its at for HE firepower.

[Loupblanc]

 !!! But it was rarely used in the tanking killing role...
 It was more of an assault/artillery vehicule. Like AVRE/Priest
 Just on steroids. 13 ammo and 30 sec reload time was a ***
 
 13 mile range, though... that was nice
 (although it had 10-20% elevation, shitty).

 Sigh.

 okay, Jagpanther it is.
 Did you make it suitable overpowered, with a piss poor
 reload time, at least?


 I like it more in the STUH role, though
 ISU and KV2 are different trees, though

Post Merge: November 08, 2009, 12:37:26 AM
 The ISU152 has the ML20 152mm howitzer gun.
 In a long barrel (All soviet guns could be used either
 as artillery or direct fire)

 Sooo

 Wouldn't it be better to make it a hybrid HE/AP StuH?
 Just with longer range.

 I like the idea a lot. Apocalypse on a long range, with
 a deathly low reload speed.

 But it hurts tanks/infantry equally. 'AP' HE explosions,
 kinda.

 Or how about AP if it hits a tank (with HE effect)
 or straight HE if it hits. Although with that bang, it
 should be equally dangerous for just about anything.

 Make it like that, please?

 The thing had 2 different sights, too.
 One for direct fire, one for artillery mode.
 It was a VERY hybrid unit.

 Please, pretty please?
 And I'm not looking to make it overpowered. Just
 somewhat historical.

 The deathly slow reload time should help

Post Merge: November 08, 2009, 02:05:36 AM
 If you play Men of War, the ISU152 DOES have
 a somewhat cataclysmic super APHE type attack.
 It's a STUH slow curve, not a STUG insta-straight-shot
 bullet type.

[BurroDiablo]

This isn't Men of War; realism takes a back seat in favour of balance. The ISU would become very overpowered if it was able to kill ANYTHING it came across, it needs some counterability. If somebody wanted a defence and infantry clearing tank they should have picked the Urban Combat doctrine. It already has a deathly slow reload time... any slower it wouldn't be worth having having in the game at all.

Also, 'Rarely used in a Tank killing role'? Where the do you think it got the name 'Beast Killer'? Certainly not from destroying buildings.

[ford_prefect]

This isn't Men of War; realism takes a back seat in favour of balance. The ISU would become very overpowered if it was able to kill ANYTHING it came across, it needs some counterability. If somebody wanted a defence and infantry clearing tank they should have picked the Urban Combat doctrine. It already has a deathly slow reload time... any slower it wouldn't be worth having having in the game at all.

Also, 'Rarely used in a Tank killing role'? Where the do you think it got the name 'Beast Killer'? Certainly not from destroying buildings.

thought it was "feline killer" or something like that

[Loupblanc]

 Between November 1943 and May 1945, 1,885 ISU-152s were built. Mass production ceased in 1947, with 3,242 vehicles produced in total.
 : wow, not so rare then, is it ?
 Compare it, say, to KT or JT
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU-152
 The ISU-152 combined three main battle roles: heavy assault gun, tank destroyer and self-propelled howitzer. The main usage was as an infantry and tank support vehicle. The 152.4-mm (6 inch) ML-20S gun-howitzer used a powerful OF-540 high-explosive shell, with an overall weight of 43.56 kg and containing nearly 6 kg of TNT. These projectiles were effective against both unprotected infantry (with detonator set on fragmentary action) and fortifications such as pillboxes and trenches (with high explosive detonator setting). A single hit with such a projectile on an un-fortified medium-sized city house was usually sufficient to kill anyone inside.

 The ISU-152 could also operate as a tank destroyer. In this role the vehicle inherited the nickname Zveroboy ("animal killer") from its predecessor the SU-152, for its ability to kill German Tigers, Panthers, and Elefants. For anti-tank operations there was a separate BR-540 armour-piercing round and charge. The large shells meant that a low fire rate of only one or two shots per minute was possible, but the large 48.9 kg warhead, fired at 600 m/s, was devastating to the target, often completely destroying it. At close range it could rip the turret off a tank.
 
 It should be noted that the ISU-152 was not a true tank destroyer; it had a very low rate of fire compared with specialised tank destroyers such as the German Jagdpanther or the Soviet SU-100, which could manage a brief burst of 5-8 shots per minute. However, attention to camouflage, quick relocation between firing positions, and use of the ISU-152 in groups of 4-5 vehicles reduced the disadvantage of the low rate of fire.



Post Merge: November 08, 2009, 04:06:54 AM
 If a rifleman destroys a KT with his sticky bomb, does
 that mean he's an AT Tank Killer unit?

 The ISU152 is a hybrid. It's a GOD at whatever it does.
 xcept it's got shit firing rate, and shit ammo load.

 Make it a hybrid. Find other ways to limit it.
 Kill it's optics (like T34/76) and firing rate should help
 somewhat, but make it into a sort of PRIEST/AVRE/JP
 with AP HE explosions (With good range)

 and it not having one life. (Like Tiger, not KT)


Post Merge: November 08, 2009, 04:12:27 AM
 However, it was problematic for the gunner to switch between the two visors. To compensate it was simpler to concentrate the fire of several vehicles onto the target—sacrificing accuracy for sheer volume of firepower. The high-explosive shells were large enough to take out even a heavily armoured vehicle. The usual complement of shells was 13 shells HE and 7 armour-piercing or concrete-piercing.

 13+7 shells is abyssal.
 Give it AP AVRE-Type explosions
 Would make it a deeply flawed/godly vehicle
 (like KT or Priest)

[BurroDiablo]

Yes yes, we've all read the Wiki articles. It carried more HE shells because A) It needed them to take out structures and B) The HE shells were also quite capable of taking out most Axis vehicles anyway.

 Between November 1943 and May 1945, 1,885 ISU-152s were built. Mass production ceased in 1947, with 3,242 vehicles produced in total.
 : wow, not so rare then, is it ?
 Compare it, say, to KT or JT

Point?

thought it was "feline killer" or something like that

It had a few names, 'Animal Killer' was another, but that might be a re-interperetation of the word 'Beast'... i'm not sure if the Russian word for 'animal' is translated directly as 'beast' since I don't speak Russian... not very well anyway.

Feline Killer seems silly though... not all the Axis 'Animals' were Cats. Rhino, Elefant, Marten, Bumblebee, Wasp... Mouse, Rat, Monster 

[Loupblanc]

 : Unrelated I was saying it was too common to be a 1
 trick wonder like KT (unique. Cannot be replaced).
 : Someone said it was a pure TD because of it's nickname.
 The ISU-152 was sometimes used as a self-propelled howitzer for indirect fire. The Red Army had not developed specialized vehicles for this purpose such as the German Hummel, US Howitzer Motor Carriage M7 or the Canadian Sexton self-propelled howitzers

 'Sometimes used in TD mode, sometimes used in SPG/A
 mode' makes it a Hummel as much as a Jagpanther.

 I really insist it be treated like a Churchill AVRE with
 AP/HEsimult-characteristics and a longer range.

 Something like a 1 shot-Hummel that doesn't lock down.
 But that would do insane damage to a Panther/Tiger if it
 would hit it semi directly (Like a STUH hitting something
 like a tank by chance)


Post Merge: November 08, 2009, 05:31:15 AM
 The ISU-152 was liked by Soviet soldiers, as it provided an effective countermeasure to the German Tiger and Panther tanks. They described it as "Nekrasivo, no spasibo!" ("Not pretty, but thanks!").

 This was ALSO it's nickname
 (Ugly but l337!). Write THAT on it's hull!

[XXXmaxpowerXXX]

so are u saying that the ISU-152 wont own german infantry. it should at least have tiger AI power considering its got terrible reload times. but i guess u guys are the ones who spent 2 years making this mod so its certainly ur right to make it how u want.
Post Merge: November 08, 2009, 06:26:01 AMif the ISU-152 is like a jadgpanther at least give the IS-2 excellent AI power.

[ford_prefect]

Point?

thought it was "feline killer" or something like that

It had a few names, 'Animal Killer' was another, but that might be a re-interperetation of the word 'Beast'... i'm not sure if the Russian word for 'animal' is translated directly as 'beast' since I don't speak Russian... not very well anyway.

Feline Killer seems silly though... not all the Axis 'Animals' were Cats. Rhino, Elefant, Marten, Bumblebee, Wasp... Mouse, Rat, Monster 
[/quote]
It was something to do with killing cats E.X. the Panther or Tiger so I do recall that it had to do with cats

[Loupblanc]

 : That's exactly what it is shaping up to be as, so far.
 ISU152 = Jagpanther 152mm vs 88mm... identical.
 YES! I am for balance, but plenty of ways this can be
 achieved without making mismatched units identical.
 Don't have beta, so can't confirm but please, please,
 please don't let it be thus!
 : IS2. Same thing. I hope it won't be Panther stats with
 IS2 stats :p I got plenty of suggestions to make it
 balanced, equivalent, while rabidly different
 
 : hey, my usual name is Felinewolfie. I mind it being called
 the felinekiller (Especially since it also was artillery,
 not a dedicated TFD)
 : Mouse, rat, racoon, uhuh.
 what about PUMA, then?


 Only germans gave pet animal names to their vehicles.
 Ohh, not true. M10 wolverine has a cute animal name.
 Yknow, like Pikacu... gotta collect them all


 ... ok, we'Re not in Kansas anymore, toto...

 (Clicks ruby slippers)