Zis2 OP

[krupp steel]

Seriously, this 290 mp unit does more damage than a flak 88. It one shots Halftracks and takes out armor like the panzer iii in a couple hits.

[chaosval3]

Well, it's doctrinal so it needs to be quite good. I do remember its deflection damage to be quite nuts. Still, its weaknesses are like any other AT gun. Maybe something is up with stats, Darc could verify pls? ^^

[SchlagtSieTot]

I can agree on that. I played a game with my cousin last night and had a Zis2 (and the AP ammo upgrade from ammo depo), the Zis took out three vehicles in four shots. 2 halftracks and one panzer III. It punches the health bar on the panzers to almost 2/3. 

[chaosval3]

It was an extremely potent AT gun, even in real life. In fact, it was so strong in early 1941 that the rounds would punch clean through the Panzer III without inflicting any significant damage. They had to retire it form service and re-introduce in 1943 because it was too powerful in the early stages.

Apart from that, I think a HT should have a chance to get away I suppose. But remember, the HT for OH is a fragile unit. Wehrmacht's HT when hit by AP rounds from the American 57mm also practically dies in 1 hit.

It might perhaps be too spammable. Once again, I can't verify the stats. Darc could if he has time or feels like it .

Still, I would say that the LeIG, the mortar and the Panzerwerfer are extremely good at routing them. You shouldn't have any issues with it. I didn't atleast.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Seriously, this 290 mp unit does more damage than a flak 88. It one shots Halftracks and takes out armor like the panzer iii in a couple hits.

Oh come on... It deals 35 more damage than the US at gun, has slightly worse reload and a tiny bit better penetration (5%). And costs 10mp more than a US at gun, with a worse crew and no ap rounds...

[krupp steel]

Seriously, this 290 mp unit does more damage than a flak 88. It one shots Halftracks and takes out armor like the panzer iii in a couple hits.

Oh come on... It deals 35 more damage than the US at gun, has slightly worse reload and a tiny bit better penetration (5%). And costs 10mp more than a US at gun, with a worse crew and no ap rounds...

Oh come on?

Come on, Don't bullshit me!

Did you even read the posts above based on other's experiences? As far as I know, USA 57mm AT guns do not take out halftracks in a single hit, even with AP rounds. It will cause significant damage, BUT it will not insta-gib the unit. Also take note, the RANGE of the unit is much larger than a regular AT gun. It has similar range to the 17 pounder AT gun. As for the crew being less weak, that is not the point. Like regular AT guns, the crew usually is shielded well by the gun itself. If a tank were to flank the gun, ofcourse they would die quickly, but thats no different than any other crew.

RE-think about it again, Darcy.

10 more manpower = much larger range, much more damage (even more than the AP rounds ability)
That seems like a bit too much.

Well, it's doctrinal so it needs to be quite good. I do remember its deflection damage to be quite nuts. Still, its weaknesses are like any other AT gun. Maybe something is up with stats, Darc could verify pls? ^^

It was an extremely potent AT gun, even in real life. In fact, it was so strong in early 1941 that the rounds would punch clean through the Panzer III without inflicting any significant damage. They had to retire it form service and re-introduce in 1943 because it was too powerful in the early stages.

Apart from that, I think a HT should have a chance to get away I suppose. But remember, the HT for OH is a fragile unit. Wehrmacht's HT when hit by AP rounds from the American 57mm also practically dies in 1 hit.

It might perhaps be too spammable. Once again, I can't verify the stats. Darc could if he has time or feels like it .

Still, I would say that the LeIG, the mortar and the Panzerwerfer are extremely good at routing them. You shouldn't have any issues with it. I didn't atleast.

Of course it is doctrinal. So is the flak 88. Thats why they are powerful. They fulfill the similar purposes of ANTI-Tank duties (Anti air for the flak88 is not its main use and is irrelevant). However, the Flak88 costs 450 mp and dozens of fuel to produce, costs lots of CPs from a primarily defensive doctrine. It is also immobile. Based on my experiences, the flak 88 DOES NOT one shot halftracks at all.

On the other hand, the Zis 2 requires much less CPs and is a bonus to an already-very powerful doctrine with many varieties (it seems a bit like an overkill too). The Zis 2 in comparison only costs 290 manpower and NO fuel. It is mobile and also has very good range. Like me and what others said before, it ONE-SHOTS halftracks. Based on this logic, the zis 2 does more damage than the flak88.

However, the flak 88 has advantages in terms of penetration and range. But this perfect example of evidence is not trying to steer the topic off board with a flak88 vs zis-2 topic. Instead, im comparing the two, showing how ridiculously effective that the Zis2  itself has many advantages to the point where it is better than one of the most feared german AT/anti-aircraft guns of WWII.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Range is 60m, just like every other at gun in the game. Range parameters also are the same. I'm gonna check ingame, too. But from what I've played so far in the past it was fine.

[chaosval3]

I doubt it. The OH halftrack has the same hitpoints as the Wehrmacht HT, which is 315.

315:(150+35)= 1.7027~

Unless some modifiers are bugged, it should take 2 shots without crits.

[krupp steel]

Well me and others above say that that is not the case, that the friggin zis-2 one shots my halftrack with full health. I remember one game I was destroying infantry with my horde of halftracks with the flak upgrade, but many of them, even the ones with ace veterancy level 4, just died in one hit by a single zis 2.

[chaosval3]

If you could upload a replay to provide evidence then we can perhaps spot the issue. The stats should be in order so maybe it is a bug.

Cheers!

[SchlagtSieTot]

As already written: My Zis had the AP ammo upgrade AND was vettet up - this might come in handy when making in-game test.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

As already written: My Zis had the AP ammo upgrade AND was vettet up - this might come in handy when making in-game test.

That explains a lot... Upgraded ZiS-2 guns with veterancy are of course much more effective. 15% higher damage, 15%better Penetration + vet boni (more range, more damage, 40% better Penetration). Overall, vetted ZiS-2 are deadly against all kinds of armour. But that's intended, just like vetted US at guns rape axis tanks.

[SchlagtSieTot]

Yeah I thought it was probably a thing worth mentioning. That said, I vets up pretty quickly. Dunno if it raise in ranks faster then PAK or 57 mm tho.

[SchlagtSieTot]

I will have do do some testing with this beast.
Ordinary Zis2 w/o ammo upgrade and vet.
Ammo upgrade no vet.
Ammo upgrade and vet.
No ammo upgrade, vet crew.

@132 Do you know if the Zis you played against was vetted and/or had the ammo upgrade?

[chaosval3]

Ah yes, thanks for the details. The AP upgrade is quite incredible. I can't say if it's needed or fair for it to effect the zis-2, but then again, we would have an upgrade without benefit really if you went RHS Propaganda. The vet scaling should be pretty similar to the US 57mm, I think. Nothing out of the ordinary, unless Darc proves me wrong.