Zis2 OP

[SchlagtSieTot]

Can one of you number-fiddling-stat-gurus please enlighten me on how the AP upgrade affects the different weapon systems?
Exactly what does it contribute to Zis (2+3), SU76 and so on.

[krupp steel]

Just played a game vs expert ai. Had the ammo improvement upgrade on zis 2 and it 2 shotted panzer iii with full health.

[krupp steel]

Played a game against another expert AI. The zis 2 had a very large range than an AT gun. It took only 2 shots from it to kill my ACE VET marder II. BUT it took only 5 SHOTS FROM THE SU-85 to kill the marder, which is a huge difference. So I can tell you there is no way the Zis 2 does as little damage as you say.

[chaosval3]

Please upload the replay in the replay section. We need to directly see the issue. This is all nice and well, but the stats are fine so it must be some bug. If you can't upload the replay, we can't help.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Played a game against another expert AI. The zis 2 had a very large range than an AT gun. It took only 2 shots from it to kill my ACE VET marder II. BUT it took only 5 SHOTS FROM THE SU-85 to kill the marder, which is a huge difference. So I can tell you there is no way the Zis 2 does as little damage as you say.

I can imagine. Vet for ostheer doesnt give many defensive bonuses, mostly its better reload, more damage and so on.

I'll look into the matter.

[krupp steel]

i think it probably is a bug,  maybe having to do with the model. I know when i was modding a year or two ago, I used the tiger ace skin from the campaign and it did very little damage compared to what it initially states in the stats (cannon was same damage as regular tiger but just did less damage than I thought)

[ATL]

Let's recap, Zis 2 does 185 per shot and like the Flak it has a huge 50% extra damage modifier against the enemy halftracks (actually I saw Flaks one shooting on M3s with awesome out of control scene  ), while by itself the Zis 2 shouldn't kill the sdkfz 251 from full health, this cannon shares all boni from its "lesser cousin" so the extra 15% damage and penetration from the armoury upgrade paired with the vet 2 +25% damage and +40% penetration make this Zis 2 a frightening presence for any German vehicle. Any of these two could be enough to one shot kill the halftrack.
As a side note IIRC the Zis gets a range improvement on vet 3.

[chaosval3]

Ah right, I forgot about the bonus damage modifiers. Still quite new to this lol, my bad. Why should we have these against a harmless HT again?

[krupp steel]

Still quite new to this lol, my bad.

I can tell. If the zis 2 is almost as good as the flak 88 there is something wrong.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Ah right, I forgot about the bonus damage modifiers. Still quite new to this lol, my bad. Why should we have these against a harmless HT again?

Leftover from 1.00 I guess. I've deleted the value already.

[chaosval3]

As in the bonus damage modifiers? Yes. I doubt we all know as much as Darc does about it(since he implements most of it ). Otherwise, one wouldn't compare the strength of the Zis-2 to a Flak 88. The Flak does 225 damage per shot excluding damage modifiers while the Zis-2 does 185 without any upgrades and damage modifiers. I suppose the crazy buffs could be toned down. Still, if you get it to vet 2 or spent this much resources only to kill a HT, then I think it's only fair to do so. I mean, 3CPs + 290 manpower + 140 manpower & 35-40 fuel( IIRC) is a lot if you want to kill a HT. Besides, some units just lose their worth a certain amount of time into the game. COH has always been like this. A Faust hitting the Jeep is an instant kill or an AT gun hitting a Wehr Bike is an instant kill. This is merely a step up, the same idea applies. But, I suppose we could make the HT able to survive 1 shot.

Thanks for the clarification by the way ATL! I don't have COH here so I can't check the stats with Corsix unfortunately .

Edit: Seems Darc ninja'd me lol

[krupp steel]

You still don't get the point. Regular at guns will take out around 40% health of a Halftrack. A zis 2 only needs one shot and its kaput.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Ah right, I forgot about the bonus damage modifiers. Still quite new to this lol, my bad. Why should we have these against a harmless HT again?

Leftover from 1.00 I guess. I've deleted the value already.

...

[krupp steel]

You still don't get the point. Regular at guns will take out around 40% health of a Halftrack. A zis 2 only needs one shot and its kaput. You can say the same for many other vehicles, since a couple less shots needed to kill is a HUGE bonus to the AT gun.

...

[Blackbishop]

@132
I'll try to word better what @darc said in his last post, because of your reply #28 it seems there is some sort of confusion.

It is uselss you argue than we don't get what you say and that only zis 2 one shots halftracks is irrelevant at this point... because it was acknowledged as a bug due to an old stat from an ancient version (reply #24).

Thank you for getting this thread open so we notice the problem and thanks to @ATL for the tip, I'm sure we would haven't gotten it that fast if both of you wouldn't have point out this, so I'm locking the topic because the rest is up to us.