2.3.0.0 balance...

[kesik123]

I want you to understand my poor English.

LeIG 18, Granatbüchse squad... They are too strong. I want you to see this replay.

It was worse than both of Propaganda and Urban of the Soviet doctrine.

God of war was worse than the 280mm rocket of Germany.

power has been greatly reduced, it is easy to notice that it was delayed until the landing time.

Shooting time of the god of war has become 1/4, but I consume 200 munitions. And I can't fire in H.Q. area.

But, 280mm can fire in HQ area.

I think personally, the balance of 2.2.2.0 at the time was good and more. Friends agreed to this...

That you want to say a lot. However, I finish here.

You would have been serious to understand my poor english.

Thank you for reading to the end...





~ original (Korean, South) ~

제가 영어를 잘 못하는 것을 당신들이 이해해 주었으면 합니다.

LeIG 18 보병포와 총류탄병... 이들은 너무 강합니다. 제 리플레이를 한 번 보길 원합니다.

그리고 소련 선전전 교리와 시가전 교리 전부 나빠졌습니다.

선전전 교리의 전쟁의 신은 독일의 280mm 로켓포 포격보다도 나빠졌습니다.

파괴력이 감소되었고, 여전히 착탄 시간이 길어 알아차리기도 쉽습니다.

사격시간은 1/4로 줄어들었지만 여전히 200 뮤니를 소모합니다. 그리고 H.Q. 구역에 쏠 수 없습니다.

그러나 280mm는 H.Q. 구역에 쏠 수 있습니다.

나는 개인적으로 2.2.2.0 때의 밸런스가 더 좋았다고 생각합니다. 이것은 친구들도 동의하는 바입니다.

하고 싶은 말은 많지만 여기서 마치겠습니다.

제 서투른 영어를 이해하기 힘들었을 겁니다. 그래도 끝까지 읽어주셔서 고맙습니다.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Hello there,

Firstly: thanks for providing us Feedback + proof (replay). As for your poins:

God of War is an Argument Point internally since quite some time and will receive tweaks in the future. We don't know in which direction we'll move with it. In the past it was too much of a gamble in Terms of usefulness, that's why GoW is the way it is now.

About the osther stuff I can't comment at the Moment, but I'll check out the replays soon.

[Grand Duke]

Could someone please tell me what changes were made to the God of War in this version? I noticed It looked kinda different when my AI SU opponent used it in my last game, but I couldn't grasp what has been changed, and I won't be able to test it myself for some time to come.

[Miles Dixon]

I think GoW is still the same right? Multiple artillery barrage (like 3-5 times than normal 280mm), and thats why it cannot fire directly to the base due to the frequency of fire, AoE and cooldown time (if I am correct GoW has 60 seconds firing time and then 180 seconds of cooling down while 280mm have around 5 seconds firing time and then 30 seconds cooldown).

I think LeIG is same as 2.2 patch since LeIG uses range to cover the lack of the damage and portability by the normal mortar team.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Okay watched the replay... gg. I'm going to be honest with you guys.

First of all: the game was high resource annihilation, which isn't balanced anyways.

And second: Most of your points were related to your playstyle, not to the overpoweredness of the ISG. Same with Bombardiers. They're inteded as an anti-blob supression unit. Of course they counter your infantry if you blob. That's the purpose of that unit. You stayed in the same position for over 10 minutes although you knew that he had multiple ISG. Also, your enemy put all his units in 1 building. Why ddint you simply tech molotovs to burn him out of there?

There were plenty of other mistakes which costed you the game. And those were definately not related to a certain unit being overpowered.

[ATL]

I saw the replay too, and I don't see a balance concern about the bombard squad and the LeIG, in fact the bombard squads looked underperforming here, since they were missing all the shots (against Strelky in cover ). About the LeIGs, I'd like to see them again with autofire instead of just firing on command.

I've got one question, I haven't tried 280 mm rockets from Wehr against base buildings, but is it OK that the Ostheer elite bombardment does so much damage against buildings, it almost destroyed the HQ by itself.

BTW, that squad wiped by 2 S-mines, it looked like some of those demo-charge and mines combo, nasty

And about the God of war, there isn't as much boom as before because of the removed overwatch after first bombardment, and I think it fires more concentrated now.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

I saw the replay too, and I don't see a balance concern about the bombard squad and the LeIG, in fact the bombard squads looked underperforming here, since they were missing all the shots (against Strelky in cover ). About the LeIGs, I'd like to see them again with autofire instead of just firing on command.

I've got one question, I haven't tried 280 mm rockets from Wehr against base buildings, but is it OK that the Ostheer elite bombardment does so much damage against buildings, it almost destroyed the HQ by itself.

BTW, that squad wiped by 2 S-mines, it looked like some of those demo-charge and mines combo, nasty

And about the God of war, there isn't as much boom as before because of the removed overwatch after first bombardment, and I think it fires more concentrated now.

Nah, if you want an attack ground artypiece get the mortar instead

About the 150mm Bombardment: actually, I didnt notice that it deals too much dmg, maybe there's an error on a modifier or smth. I'll put it on the watchlist.

[ATL]

Nah, if you want an attack ground artypiece get the mortar instead

About the 150mm Bombardment: actually, I didnt notice that it deals too much dmg, maybe there's an error on a modifier or smth. I'll put it on the watchlist.

Well, I tried  , I tend to use the mortar anyways, despite it doesn't seem exactly the same as Wehr one (I should check it).

I checked Corsix looking for anomalies on the target tables, and what I saw is that the 155mm barrage deals full damage to tp_building (compared to other artillery which have 35%/50% instead). My guessing is that Ostheer elite barrage is based on the American one, since both seem to have same modifiers, but Ostheer artillery deals about double damage, so difference should be noticed here, hope this is helpful to point out the problem, on a side note I don't know how damage is done to civilian buildings and HQs (damage to walls, collapsing and so on), so I'm not sure about this...

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Okay, easy version for you:

he 2 ISG and you camp on fuel. All game long. Very bad because easy to hit target with artillery. You not tech molotovs to counter his ISG/troops in building. You not capture other sectors, he had larger mapcontrol. You not built AT guns against his StuGs, and no heavy mortars against ISG. Also u not teched red banner strelky.

If you think ISG/Osther is op we can play some games later on today. I'll play soviets. add me on steam: darcreaver

[Campaigner]

Okay, easy version for you:

he 2 ISG and you camp on fuel. All game long. Very bad because easy to hit target with artillery. You not tech molotovs to counter his ISG/troops in building. You not capture other sectors, he had larger mapcontrol. You not built AT guns against his StuGs, and no heavy mortars against ISG. Also u not teched red banner strelky.

If you think ISG/Osther is op we can play some games later on today. I'll play soviets. add me on steam: darcreaver

I like you Darc

Your first answer to him was so nice I thought your patience was endless :p   I would have been like you in the answer I quoted from you now and in my second reply a lot harsher.


I'ts great to see that you (the team) do not bow down to demands and complaints based on inexperience, low skill or simple bias.

[chaosval3]

Looks like Darc made himself a friend and an enemy :p.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Okay, easy version for you:

he 2 ISG and you camp on fuel. All game long. Very bad because easy to hit target with artillery. You not tech molotovs to counter his ISG/troops in building. You not capture other sectors, he had larger mapcontrol. You not built AT guns against his StuGs, and no heavy mortars against ISG. Also u not teched red banner strelky.

If you think ISG/Osther is op we can play some games later on today. I'll play soviets. add me on steam: darcreaver

I like you Darc

Your first answer to him was so nice I thought your patience was endless :p   I would have been like you in the answer I quoted from you now and in my second reply a lot harsher.


I'ts great to see that you (the team) do not bow down to demands and complaints based on inexperience, low skill or simple bias.

We wont do this. But we need replays (or better; the balancers need replays) to give solid feedback on questions, request and suggestions. Thats the reason why Balancers are asking all the time for replays because they need to see the problems.

[krupp steel]

What if you are mostly victorious in a one versus one match against a top ranking balancer? Does it make you qualified for the badge?

[chaosval3]

@132

Now now, settle down my man. We would never go as far as to see ourselves as top ranking balancers. Just like Relic loses to its community, it is only logical that there will be players better than us. Some people just have more time to play, practice and improve their game. Currently, with Darc and I, it's definetely not the case.

If you are implying that you want to join the team, I am sure that we can discuss something. Now, before we do any of that, you still didn't add me on Steam: warhammerchaosgod
It would be mutually beneficial if we could converse there, I think.

Kind regards.

[Codename "Tiger"]

My experience:

Bombardiers and LeIG are not OP.
I dont like the word Over-Powered.
In 99% People just didnt know how to play or how to counter a unit.
(e.g. LeIG has long range BUT it is not firing automaticly-> you need more micro
Granatbüchse Squad is only good in cover (Soviet needs Sniper, Arty(Mortar) or Grenades)

But i can agree abaout the God of War. Its atm not very well but like it is written already, GoW will be changed.

Generally: Thanks for  your support and ty for the Replay.
But you played with high Ressources and without Popcap.
Imho in this game mode we cant balance stuff and its hard to assess the value of these Replays.

Maybe you should try a "normal" game (standard ress and popcap)
then you'll see most things are diffrent and then its more easy for us (me) to understand you arguments

Regards