Panzerjagers are Weak

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Have you ever thought about giving the shreck to the Panzerfusiliers ? Because atm Pjagers shrecks can't  fight KV1 which comes really fast.  It's almost like a bazooka, failing to penetrate heavy armor.
PF's seems to be stronger and you can actually engage the KV without getting to 1 man in no time and auto retreat.

I don't really see why this would be beneficial at all. Panzerfusiliers and Pjägers are in different tiers, and Fusiliers can use the Panzerfaust ability which serves as soft AT.

The Ostheer Schreck stats are 100% the same as Wehr/PE, only the damage is different. Wehr 120, PE 105 and Ostheer 90.
Furthermore, the KV-1s are an extremely bad example because KV tanks are designed to not be countered by panzerschrecks alone. KV armour has 15% less received penetration from schrecks and a very good basic armourtype from the start, so you actually need Marders / paks / doctrinal AT tanks / StuGs against them.

First of all there's Steam where you can ask people to play. Since noone does automatch in EF, this is the only way to test PvP. Second, I personally and afaik Killar as well, asked Darc, Glimz many times for a game they didn't/don't even respond since they are too busy with Dota2 lol. If you want to be convinced that many things are broken in EF at the moment, the only way is pwn a dev in 1v1 but all of them somehow reluctant to play. So what's your other solution I wonder.

Sry, reallife prevents me from playing dota/coh/other games at all atm. So, what's so broken?

[Riggsman]

Well you may play any game you want, it's your pleasure and fun ofc and I can't judge that but since Beta Testing few months passed and since many issues reported personally or by some others through the forum. You don't need replays all the time, if you don't have time to play you can't watch a replay too. Also this is "your" mod and your badge requires attention and activity for this mod. If the issues explained clearly you can have an idea what's wrong with it. In Gr or COH2 noone asks replays!!! for balance issues, they talk about it because everyone knows what they are talking about. If it's a bug yes- you need replay but not balance issues.

We have also real life but If i wanna play a game, I play COH only so I pay more attention to this game and balance issues no matter what it's written on my badge. So play with people and see with your own eyes what's wrong.

[chaosval3]

I agree with Riggsman.
I may not have every Dev in my friend list, but I never get a Dev asking me to play some EF. Ever. Because they are playing COH2 or Dota2 yes... Which is disappointing to say the least. I think overall balance of OH isn't bad, but it still needs some tweaks. Opinions may differ on the balance but if I would upload a replay it should be watched. Not only by Ape, but also by the other balancing Dev's.

Also, even if I am a Beta tester, I joined the Beta at the stage where everything was basically finalized and also my feedback wasn't of considerable value as I have become a much better player than I was back then, but it is better to have at least ideas than nothing at all.

However, my major concern for EF is the lack of knowledge. Your vision of balance is different than others, but if you don't want to change certain things it would be nice to at least explain us how to do it the right way. How to use this and that; when and what etc... Even some of the top players are surprised by certain units because they play a different role. Just an example would be the Sturmfusiliers MP-41. It's an smg so it should perform well in close range, but then I heard JuhwannX in one of his casts say that it is most effective at medium range. How should I know these things? Once again, just something like a mini series on youtube that would explain how each unit would work and where they perform best etc...
It might well be nitpicking, but I am just concerned about this mod because it is my favourite for VCOH.

We need like a (big) tournament again!

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

[...]In Gr or COH2 noone asks replays!!![...]

Ofc not, both communities consist (mostly) of elitist douchebags who think they have the longest e-peen for being good at a certain game. It doesn't really matter if you post replays over there because noone cares at all anyways if you don't have a "expert" badge next to your name. It's been like this for years, even when I started online gaming 10 years ago.

Replays are neutral, you can rewatch them, slow them and pause them. I for myself can determine much better if a certain unit needs a damage/cost decrease&increase while watching a replay than by playing myself. When I'm playing I'm too busy to look at the unit's performance overall because I'm microing other stuff.

I agree with Riggsman.
I may not have every Dev in my friend list, but I never get a Dev asking me to play some EF. Ever. Because they are playing COH2 or Dota2 yes... Which is disappointing to say the least. I think overall balance of OH isn't bad, but it still needs some tweaks. Opinions may differ on the balance but if I would upload a replay it should be watched. Not only by Ape, but also by the other balancing Dev's.

Also, even if I am a Beta tester, I joined the Beta at the stage where everything was basically finalized and also my feedback wasn't of considerable value as I have become a much better player than I was back then, but it is better to have at least ideas than nothing at all.

However, my major concern for EF is the lack of knowledge. Your vision of balance is different than others, but if you don't want to change certain things it would be nice to at least explain us how to do it the right way. How to use this and that; when and what etc... Even some of the top players are surprised by certain units because they play a different role. Just an example would be the

Once again, just something like a mini series on youtube that would explain how each unit would work and where they perform best etc...
It might well be nitpicking, but I am just concerned about this mod because it is my favourite for VCOH.

We need like a (big) tournament again!

Sort of agree. There are unit guides for Ostheer and Soviets, though already. Main problem is that we lack people who are good at casting/video editing etc. I for myself can't do that well.

[Riggsman]

So what's the difference here for every kind of criticism  if you require a replay? It's another type of elitism that "I don't care what you say, I am the boss and I'll check your replay, if i decide it's right maybe i will change". We are so long in this game and mod, I have to send an official application to be listened or what? lol. Afaik, when we made many games when Ost released, I remember on mumble that some of the actual balancers were whining about the current balance lol. They didn't see things until they play some other people who are out of their circle. They didn't need to ask replay because they played and experienced themselves.

I remember some said, they can find balancers and players in 5 mnts, it's really sad to see now how it was a failure statement.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

I just say that replays makes it easier for me to tweak stats for units on the fly, because I can focus on watching unit's combat performance like overall penetration, damage or the upkeep/manpower flow throughout the game instead of having to watch them AND micro them, because microing usually doesn't leave too much room for watching your units, unless you're playing a game like settlers where you can leave the PC for 5 minutes without missing something.

And another thing about the past "feedback" on the Ostheer. The only feedback that I've mostly noticed was stuff like "omg this is so broken, remake everything pls", "ostheer teching is broken fix pls".  Other feedback "omg it's not like wehr vs. USA, give Ostheer hmg in t1 so it plays like vCoH". Or "oh no sniperspam is so easy! It's broken!!!" or "HEy can u pls add tank xy to your faction? it looks so cool" "why Ostheer has no (insert random german secret weapon xy here) pls add it it will be fun" "oh no AI does not work properly I CANT COMPSTOMP WTF"

Everything that ever was "discussed" (aka being whined about) were massive design changes, 2 weeks into the release. Imagine relic listening to all the USA whiners about the mg42 at CoH release and removed it from t1 because "OMG mg42 so OP in buildings it supresses all my units WTF nerf/remove pls RIFLEMEN USELESS LOL" before flanking was discovered.

Nobody really cared to understand how soviets vs. Ostheer was supposed to be played, or how both factions were manufactured to work as factions themselves.  How units interact between each other. How the pool system was supposed to work. How the Ostheer/Soviet weapons work in combat. Which units serve which role etc. It was only compared to vCoH wehr vs. US, conclusion was that the new axis faction plays different and the gameplay was different so OF COURSE! it has to be changed. Also, nobody on the EF team got any clue how the game is played and so it's just IMPOSSIBLE that they could come up with a working design for the Ostheer/Soviets that plays well.

Some ppl like it, some people don't. So what? There also are ppl playing brits and PE because they like those factions over Wehr and US. Nobody forces anybody to play Ostheer vs. Soviets exclusively. Ostheer vs. US is fun, and Soviets vs. Wehr/PE also is fun, at least from my judgement from the games that I've played in the past. I don't say that there are no problems overall whatsoever, and we're working on solutions for that.

As we stated in the past, soviets were work in progress and a lot of feedback was included with the following patches, like adding a supression weapon for soviets earlygame, tweaking soviet tanks, reincluding the SU-85/100 again against axis heavies which t34 struggled against. Buffs to the IS 2, removing broken units like Sturmtiger, switching Panzerwerfer and Pz III, IS3 etc.

Just because someone thinks he got a super awesome idea for something doesn't mean that it's necessarily a good idea. Stuff needs to be tested instead of blindly including it. The current pz III is a nice example, the t3 flip accidentally was released with 2.200 and isn't really balanced in its current form. It was planned to be included with the upcoming 2.300 patch. An internal rollback from our server data slipped the testing changes into the release version without noticing.

Also, "5 mnts balancers blah blah" babbling was the personal opinion vom beefy and dmz, so don't bring that one up again. Ofc they were wrong, everyone knows that/knew that at that point. I personally found it extremely sad to see you, crani, dennis and killar go. But well, it has happened, it was shitty, but we can't do anything about it as it's well back into the past.

Also, while we're talking about balancer feedback: afaik the only balancers complaining were glimz and juhwann, but only after certain players started complaining about everything being broken on mumble for a week or two. It's called influence and prejudices. The one-eyed guy is the king among the blind.

[Riggsman]

Well, since COH1 is in a revival which I've anticipated long ago- and I am extremely glad, I think EF has a big chance to come back. I'll gladly help you in the process when I have time. I'll be off for 2-3 weeks. As you know very well I never asked some tanks or units to be added or erased, my feed backs were mostly about tweaking the abilities or stats. So if you need a hand, me and maybe killar will be glad to help.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Sure, every help is welcome.

[Cranialwizard]

Also, "5 mnts balancers blah blah" babbling was the personal opinion vom beefy and dmz, so don't bring that one up again. Ofc they were wrong, everyone knows that/knew that at that point. I personally found it extremely sad to see you, crani, dennis and killar go. But well, it has happened, it was shitty, but we can't do anything about it as it's well back into the past.

Down, but never out.

I have been surveying the forum from time to time when I get some free time to look over how the mod is going and must say I am disappointed in the lack of community involvement, though I have heard that many are fed up with the way that CoH2 is and are coming back to the first game. Many of the old dogs have left and it saddens me that the work put into the mod is somewhat dulled because there are only a select few playing the mod.

Though I was always here to lend a hand in the past I am afraid that I have little time to offer you guys. University and Work is a burden but in a few weeks I may be able to borrow a few days to help if you so request it. Just shoot me an email for further details.

I can not say the same for Dennis.

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

very nice
i would like to play again against the good old cranial

[Dreamerbg]

Or with him
Anyway... Mod work is one thing, real life is other - always keep that in mind before blaming us for not be able to play or doing nothing new for the mod.

Its always great if the old balancers want to get back and help. Their experience and skills are greater than mine and than most of the rest currently working. So, yes, help will be greatfully appreciated