Panzerjagers are Weak

[krupp steel]

As a specialized AT-Infantry unit, Panzerjagers do a poor job at doing their job. The squad dies as fast as PE tank busters vs. Tanks, and their one and only Panzerschreck is 25% less effective than its Wehr/PE counterparts. To get another one of these lower quality schrecks, they first require a building upgrade initially, and 75 munitions (pretty poor cost, considering it costs the same as a Wehr Schreck and is less effective). The squad itself costs 320 manpower, which I consider to be too expensive. The unit has probably the poorest AI ability in the game, that they are not able to defend itself from any form of infantry. At least tank busters in groups can occasionally fend off a few engines or vanilla rifles on their own.

As a infantry unit that is designed to fight tanks, they could have their own armor type that makes them more resistant to tank fire. Accuracy should be tweaked a bit to make their schrecks fire more accurately and rapidly.

As if now, Jagers w/ tankbuster equipment are much more effective and cost effective in comparison.

[TheVolskinator]

Working As Intended (tm), part of the pool balancing system  .

(Agree with everything you said).

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

We never said that all datas and all units are already well balanced. We are working on the tank hunters and there are plans to buff them.
BUT our problem is that no one is playing EF in MP games. All the balance stuff is done by a small group of devs.
When u have balance problems try to play with devs OR upload replays because we can just check and analyse units with your replays!
All in all we are happy about feedback but we need datas and replays to work and balance stuff... Thanky u very much.

[chaosval3]

@132
Hmm I think personally that Jägers are a good example of a 'Glass Cannon'. But, I think that the major issue with PJ's is that they are kind of too random. That is kind of the problem with Schrecks in general with their slow rate of fire and their random accuracy. PJ are indeed fragile, just never sent them in alone and they should be safer. Sometimes they do just great and sometimes they don't so I get a Pak 40.

My two cents

[Tom]

Good point Lord Rommel.

PJagers aren't that bad, although their Shrecks don't deliver the same damage as their PE counterparts i can assure that focus fire ability makes up for the lack of damage. 
And the most important ability of them that ppl tend to forget  its the cheap teller mine. At 35 muni each it makes them quite spammable. If you're a player with a rich imagination you can make some crazy stuff with those tellers, like triggering them with nades when hordes of cons are swarming you turning them in green xp.

Giving them rifles instead of lugers won't make any difference especially when u buy the second shreck.

They shouldn't be used as the main AT force. Use them in conjunction with the pak 40, preventing flanks.  If u manage to place a couple of tellers i don't see the need of more than 1 Pjager squad. Taking in consideration that even the landsers have at nades ( bugged though, suggest to replace them with PE at nades) i think OH deals very well with vehicles in general.

[krupp steel]

I never said you should give them rifles. What I meant is with having extremely poor AI, they should make up in much stronger AT ability. Take Wehr grenadiers for example. Upgrade them with one Schreck, they are soft AT and AI. But PJs lack in the AI department so they should be better vs Armor.

The real problem i see with them now, is they are too expensive for what they could do. And the Pak 40 requires much more tech and comes out much later than the Panzerjagers. Getting a Pak 40 to fend off light vehicles is too much of a hassle (you primarily be using them later on if medium/heavy armor hits the field) and Panzerjagers are probably the one unit that comes the earliest and that you need most when light armor is on the battle field.

[kirbyksn]

I build Marder II  to deal with the light tanks, also with 1 panzerjager squad to protect the marder from flanking light vehicles. I don't trust panzerjagers, the squad of 3 men give me pain.

[Tom]

I never said you should give them rifles. What I meant is with having extremely poor AI, they should make up in much stronger AT ability. Take Wehr grenadiers for example. Upgrade them with one Schreck, they are soft AT and AI. But PJs lack in the AI department so they should be better vs Armor.

The real problem i see with them now, is they are too expensive for what they could do. And the Pak 40 requires much more tech and comes out much later than the Panzerjagers. Getting a Pak 40 to fend off light vehicles is too much of a hassle (you primarily be using them later on if medium/heavy armor hits the field) and Panzerjagers are probably the one unit that comes the earliest and that you need most when light armor is on the battle field.

I overestimated these guys. I was giving them credit because they had the teller mine which turned out to be just another lame mine that barely scratch a light vehicle. Worse than the wehr mine.

I suggest they receive some elite armor to make them more resilient to infantry.


They should come with elite armor making them more resilient to infantry.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Imo they're okay. Schreck damage okay, with focus firing they're decent against tanks, 2nd schreck is cheap. However they suffer more from not having a proper unit to support them earlygame (Marder, pIII, StuG are all in different tiers). And as schrecks are sort of inaccurate they're unreliable AT units. We're working on improving the t2 at weaponry in general and give more freedom on using Panzerjägers as support AT. Will take a while, though.

Also, the AT mine will receive a new model/tooltip in the next version so it's more obvious that its different from PE Tellers.

[Tom]

Not to mention that they are 6xp/model. Second most high xp after the Knights Cross Holders.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

That's tied to the squad cost. The higher the cost from an individual soldier is the more XP you get for killing it. Not to be confused with EP though, which are added to the veterancy counter for the killing unit.

[Tom]

Have you ever thought about giving the shreck to the Panzerfusiliers ? Because atm Pjagers shrecks can't  fight KV1 which comes really fast.  It's almost like a bazooka, failing to penetrate heavy armor.
PF's seems to be stronger and you can actually engage the KV without getting to 1 man in no time and auto retreat.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Like Darci said; the PzJägers shouldnt be able to fight everything by their own. U will need heavy weapons to deal with such an heavy tank like the KV-1.
But i said it all the time... there was a closed beta were a lot of people had the chance to help and adjust the balance... no one was there and was willing
to help us. NOW - after the disaster of CoH2 - everyone is coming back and start to "advice" us in balance questions... Please; When u have balance
issues - SEND us REPLAYS of your player vs player matches because we dont need this "ideas". We need datas where we can see this problems.
Thank u very much.

[Riggsman]

First of all there's Steam where you can ask people to play. Since noone does automatch in EF, this is the only way to test PvP. Second, I personally and afaik Killar as well, asked Darc, Glimz many times for a game they didn't/don't even respond since they are too busy with Dota2 lol. If you want to be convinced that many things are broken in EF at the moment, the only way is pwn a dev in 1v1 but all of them somehow reluctant to play. So what's your other solution I wonder.

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

when we started the closed beta nobody was playing dota2
when we started the closed beta we dont even had the steam version of coh1

i guess this is what rommel wanted to say
we had nearly 200 beta testers and nobody uploaded (even now) replays
all we got are the the next ideas and thoughts topics

add plz unit xy or stuff like this


and we always said we need replays! and we need PvP replays!!!
we never said that we are so pro that we can do everything alone. ofc we arent. there is always a better player!