Make a Faction concept.

[Codename "Tiger"]

Maybe we can create one single Doctrin with some Italian Vehicles.
For a complete new Factiondesign imho there are not enough italian units,.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Why should EF create an italian doctrine?
jonarus_drakus is talking about his OWN modding idea and project and not about italian weapons in EF 

I would be happy when someone would be able to realise an mod with italian armour. Would be cool to see Semovente 90/53, M15/42 and P.26 ingame. Imagen cool tank battles between italian medium armour and - e.g. - General Lee tanks and Churchills! 

[Codename "Tiger"]

When he's talking about his own mod then its fine.

[jonarus_drakus]

Okay... So I originally wanted to be able to post both Axis and Allied list at the same time, but filling out the Allied list has proven to be more difficult than expected (The number of changes in Allied equipment from the 'North Africa' front to the Italian front is staggering to say the least... Vehicles and weapons appropriate to one stage were completely obsolete (and removed from service) not even a year later...

Anyway, the Axis list *IS* done, and so I have the honour to present:

"German-Italian Operations Group"
("Gruppo di Operazioni Tedesco-Italiano" - "Deutsch-Italienisch-Betriebsgruppe")

1) HQ - Regimental Command Center ("Centro di comando Reggimentale")

a) Combat Engineers ("Ingegnere Combattimento") - 150mp, 4pop.
4-man team armed with "Carcano M1891/24" carbines. The squad has a single 'heavy weapon' slot that can be filled by a 'pick up' weapon as normal, or by one of the following upgrades:
i) 50mu - Explosive Dectection Gear - Replaces one carbine with a minesweaper.
ii) 75mu - Infantry Flamethrower - Replaces one carbine with an M40 flame-thrower.
NOTE: Default capture speed of 50% of standard, Default repair speed at 75% of standard.

b) Sd.Kfz.251/7 Half-track ("Pioneerpanzerwagen") - 240mp, 3pop.
An armoured German half-track, specially adapted for 'battlefield repair and recovery'. While armed with a single MG-34, this weapon is not always manned. The vehicle operates in two main modes:
i) Mobile: The vehicle can move about the map as directed, repairing vehicles and buildings with efficiency (125% repair rate). The MG is un-manned in this mode.
ii) Static: The vehicle 'locks down', securing the (friendly) sector. The Driver moves to man the MG in this mode, giving the vehicle limited active self defense ability (in addition to it's decent armour).
NOTE: There is a limit of 3 of these vehicle (per player) on the field at any given time.
((I considered extra abilities for 'static' mode - Such as a 'deploy Goliath' ability, or a 'repair aura' akin to the WM repair bunker, but smaller and weaker))

c) HQ Global research
i) Veteran Engineers ("Ingegnere Veterano") upgrade - 100mp, 25f - Calls forth engineering veterans to lead combat engineer teams. Each of these NCOs (Warrant-officer 4th class) comes with a Beretta M38 smg, and replaces the units 'normal' Sergeant. This upgrade increases squad sector-capture and repair rates by 25% each (cap rate is 75% of normal, repair rate is 100% of normal).

d) Weapon Emplacement - base defense ("Arma Postazione") - (x2 free at start)
Re-enforced, but open-air sandbag mini-bunker with emplaced Breda M35 2cm twin AA-gun crewed by 3 men (standard infantry - can be de-crewed and in turn re-crewed as per British emplaced weapons.
((note: field AA version was traditionally a 'twin' mount, but single mount is acceptable option))


2) Infantry Barracks ("Caserma di Fanteria") - 190mp, 15f.

a) Italian Infantry ("Fanteria d'Italia") - 320mp, 6pop.
6-man basic infantry squad armed with "Carcano M1891/24" carbines. The squad has 2 'heavy weapon' slots for collected or purchased weapons. The squad is equiped as standard with grenades ("Bomba a Mano Mod.35 impact fuse hand grenade").
i) 20mu - Basic 'Grenade throw' ability.
ii) 50mu - The squad is equipped with a 'Breda M30' MLG. Used in a similar fashion to the US 'BAR', but with reduced 'damage per shot' and RoF, limiting its effectiveness, but boosting the squad's mid-range firepower and suppression abilities all the same. (note: Once the 'Infantry NCOs' upgrade has been researched, this upgrade changes, providing 2 LMGs for 75mu, rather than 1 LMG for 50mu).

b) HMG team ("Pesante Fucile Automatico" - lit. 'Heavy Automatic Rifle') - 240mp, 3pop
3-man team with 1 Breda M37 HMG, and two Infantry Carbines. The M37 has a slightly larger round than it's contempories, resulting in better 'damage per round'. However, its it complicated and hampered by the use of small magazines rather than a 'belt feed', reducing it's rate of fire, both rounds-per-burst (5), and bursts-per-reload (4). Needs a minimum crew of 1 to operate.

c) Light Recon Transport ("Lichttransport Spahwagen Sd.Kfz.10") - 250mp 3pop
Light and quick, but lacking weapons and armour, the Sd.Kfz.10 possesses the extended view (and detection) range of a dedicated scout, while also providing an early transport option for a single squad (up to 6 men - up to 4 men my fire their personal weapons over the sides). It has a standard crew of only 2 - The driver, and an 'assistant'. Note, while it is a transport, infantry in proximity can NOT re-enforce from it.

i) 50mu - Activates the vehicles 'self repair' ability (7hp per second for 30sec - up to 210 total or to vehicle max of 250hp. Slows movement speed to 1/3 normal).
i) 75mp, 50mu, +2pop - Upgrades the vehicle to the Sd.Kfz.10/5 variant, sacrificing its transport capacity and 'scout sight' in order to mount a single 2cm FlaK.38 and 2 additional crewmen, allowing the vehicle some limited degree of late-game use. The vehicle retains it's 'self repair' activated ability with this upgrade.

d) Infantry Global Upgrade.
i) "Infantry NCOs" - 125mp, 30f - Upgrades infantry squads with Sergeants with Beretta M38 SMGs. Also enables the 'upgraded' LMG purchase ability.


3) Support Barracks ("Caserma di Sopporto") - 200mp, 25f.

a) Light AT-gun ("Cannone da 47/32 M35")- 260mp, 3pop
1x 4.7cm L/32 AT-gun with 3 crew (Gunner, loader, and spotter with carbine - requiring a minimum of 2 to operate).

b) Light Mortar Team ("Squadra Mortario di Brixia")- 240mp, 3pop.
1x 45mm Brixia M35 light mortar with 3 crew (Gunner, loader and spotter with carbines - can be opperated by 1 man). Has very fast rate-of-fire, decent accuracy, and only slightly reduced range (10-60m in-game), but the rounds are low yeild, doing low damage with a small area-of-effect. Has the standard 'barrage' and 'smoke barrage' abilities expected of a mortar.

c) Armoured recon/response ("Carro-Veloce L3/35")- 260mp, 20f, 4pop.
2-man light "tankette" with only very limited armour (14mm front - equivilent to PE-22x series in-game), but with high speed and respectable anti-infantry firepower. Mounts dual Breda M38 HMGs (vehicle-mount version of MG team M37 HMG).
i) 50mu - Upgrades the vehicle to an L3/cc variant, exchanging both of it's HMGs for a single S-18-1000 semi-auto AT-rifle. Effective against similar scout/recon vehicles, and can 'snipe' infantry.


4) DOCTRINAL SPECIAL BARRACKS - 260mp, 50f.
The units and upgrades produced through these buildings are doctrine specific - Please refer to the various 'Doctrine' documents for information on these facilities. Building construction costs are the same for all three variants however.
i) Fallschirm Korp: Parachute Armoury ("Fallschirm Waffenkammer").
ii) Afrikakorp: Army Depot of the Afrikakorp ("Heers-depot des Afrikakorp").
iii) Mountain Korp: Special Barracks ("Caserma Speciali").


5) Armour Workshop ("Officina Armatura") - 320mp, 75f.

a) Infantry Support 'Assault gun' ("Semovente 75/18") - 300mp, 50f, 6pop.
Based on the M13/40 Medium tank chassis, and inspired by the Pz.III based "StuG". Armed with a low velocity 75mm L/18 gun providing similar performance to the German "stubby" 75mm guns. Can also recieve a defensive/AA pintle mounted Breda M38 HMG via veterancy.
i) 50mu - Fires a single high-yield HE round at the designated target area. The round has a large AoE and decent damage, but almost non-existent armour penetration abilities. The vehicle must be stationary to fire and the recoil (cool-down) means the vehicle is 'immobilized' for 3sec after the shot as well. has a 60 second 're-charge' (not including the 3sec 'cool-down'), though this can be shortened by veterancy. Requires 'specialized ammunition' tech upgrade.

b) Attack/Assault tank ("Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf.J") - 380mp, 60f, 6pop.
Initially deployed as the 'late production' Aust.J varient armed with the 5cm KwK.38 L/42, plus co-axial and hull MG-34s (veterancy can add a 'top' mount MG-42).
With the 'Panzer Modernization' global upgrade researched, the vehicle is effectively upgraded to Ausf.L standards in all respects except for the main gun which must be upgrade separately on an individual basis via one of two options:
i) 90mu - Upgrades to the later 5cm L/60 gun with improved penetration.
ii) 50mp, 50mu - Retains the L/42 gun, but mounts additional radio gear, becoming a "Ausf.K Befehlswagen" command tank. This variant buffs other near-by friendly vehicles, giving them bonuses equivilent to +1 level of veterancy.

c) Dedicated Tank-Destroyer ("Semovente 105/25") - 360mp, 50f, 8pop
Based on the widened M15/42 Medium tank chassis and mounting a mid-length 105mm gun-howitzer. Firing standard AP rounds, the vehicle is equally effective against grouped infantry (small AoE), and medium armour (up to medium tank grade at ~60% pen chance for front). Can unlock a top/pintle mount Breda M38 HMG via veterancy.
i) 100mu - Fires a rare and expensive german-made HEAT round at the designated target. The increased penetration ability of the round all mut guarentees penetration against medium tanks (~90% pen chance from front), and allows the gun to be viable against even heavy armour (~50% pen chance -vs- Churchill from front). Requires 'Specialized Ammunition' tech upgrade.

d) Global Armour Upgrades:
i) "Panzer Modernization" - 60f - Upgrades all existing and future Pz.3 tanks from Ausf.J to Ausf.L standards, enables vehicle-specific upgrade options.
ii) "Specialized Ammunition" - 75f - Enables the 75/18 'HE shot', and 105/25 'HEAT shot' abilities.


6) Battlefield Constructs

a) Passive constructs - no cost(s)
A full set of the four basic passive constructs. Wire and sandbags can be constructed by all 'infantry' units (but not actual or psudo weapons teams):
i) Sandbag walls
ii) Razor-wire fences
Along with these, tank-traps ("Dragons Teeth" type), and s-mines can only be deployed by 'Combat Engineer' units:
iii) "Dragons Teeth" concrete tank-traps (deployed in lines, OH style).
iv) "" (anti-infantry land-mine) - 35mu per set. - Deploys a set of 5 s-mines in a rough "X" formation. These 'bounding' type mines spring into the air when triggered showing anyone near-by with shrapnel. The full set of 5 will be triggered all at once, resulting in a large AoE (3m lethal, 5m damaging). The shrapnel is extremely effective against infantry (especially those at the near the center of the AoE), but useless against even lightly armoured vehicles, leaving only un-armoured scouts (like US Jeeps) vulnerable, and even they will only take moderate damage.

b) sandbag bunker/foxhole ("Buca di Arma") - 50mp.
Built only by Combat engineers. A single large 'foxhole' type circular pit is dug into the ground and roughly/lightly re-enforced with sandbags held in place by thin wooden pannels and posts. These emplacements provide slightly greater protection against direct-fire weapons than OH foxholes. Instead of one foxhole per man, the larger size of the pit alows space for a full (single) squad of up to six men with 360degree protection and arcs of fire.
In addition to standard infantry units, the following 'crewed weapons' my occupy the pit (with the main weapon placed centrally with a set arc, though they may be manually ordered to 'change arc' as per British emplacements):
i) Generic: HMG team, light mortar team.
ii) Fallschirm Korp: MG-34 team, Kz.G.41 mortar team, 75mm Leichtgeschütz 40 team.
iii) Afrikakorp: n/a (no suitable units added by doctrine).
iv) Mountain Korp: S-18-1000 team.
Finally, whether occupied by infantry or weapons teams, the pits are static, cramped, and completely lacking in protection from 'plunging fire', there-by making them very vulnerable to indirect artillery of all kinds (The effect of such explosive forces would in fact be magnified inwards by the walls of the pit!).


I'll give people a chance to comment on the 'basic list' first, then post doctrines later (Which will also fill the 'gap' at TIER 3), as those documents are almost as big as this first one (each!).

~JD

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

From the historical/military aspect i can tell u that the german SdKfz. 10 was never used in a scout role. It was a gun mover and self propelled gun base.
I think u want to have a kind of halftrack here without reusing the Sdkfz. 250 or 251 again, right?
U should search for details and information about the Autocarro Protetto AS37, an italian armoured car.

I think your Tier II is to weak to force the player to play it. On the other side players have to play your Tier II because there is no alternatives, right? You have no infantry based anti tank unit or a "Panzerfaust" like ability on an infantry formation (at the moment). Another aspect is the mortar. I know that a lot of stuff can be adjusted by stats and balance but a 45mm mortar would be the weakest mortar in CoH With the Mortaio da 81/14 Modello 35 u have a mortar of the common calibre. Or u can try the EF solution and u can use a light field howitzer like the Obice da 75/18 modello 34 (similar to the 75mm pack howitzer of the US army in CoH 2). I dont know if u have planed different artillery units in your "doctrinal building" like the Nebelwerfer or 10,5cm LG 40 (both were heavily used in italy by german airborne troops). For your CV.35 tankette u could add a flamer upgrade. Could be an option when pioneers arent available or when u want a vehicle based fast flamer unit.

For your tank hall i would suggest the Semovente 90/53 instate of the 105/25. I think a heavy tank destroyer is needed to compensate your "weak MBT". I think in a possible allied counter faction u will have tanks like the Grant, Sherman, Valentine or Chrurchill. Not sure that a Panzer III would be the best version here plus the fact that u want to add a command tank upgrade here causing a sink in AT power in your armed forces.

One last aspect is the anti air power. In my opinion all factions need an anti air unit as long as the enemy faction will have access to air support. U should keep this in mind when u try to make an allied faction with air support abilities.

About your german words: When u are not sure about the german words then u should ignore them first. E.g. Deutsch-Italienisch-Betriebsgruppe sounds pretty wired for a german native speaker A "Betriebsgruppe" is a kind of a study group or working party in a company. U tried to refer to "Deutsch-Italienische Einsatzgruppe" (task force), right? Other words are "Pionierrpanzerwagen" instate of Pioneerpanzerwagen or "leichter Transporter" instate of Lichttransport.

And a final note: It seems to me that u dont want to make a "revolutionary" new army concept here. Looks more or less like an solid old CoH concept with US army design aspects and a forced Tier 1 -> Tier 2 -> Tier 3 -> Tier 4 gameplay. Think thats okay. But when u will focus on a "classical faction design" you should try to pick or use more of this italian war weapons like the M15/42 tank or the P.26 tank or the different italian truck mounted heavy weapons.

All in all good luck with your idea. Hope my feedback will help u a bit

[chaosval3]

Hmm, I really like your attention to detail. This is quite rare in concepts these days. It looks like you spent quite some time on it. I do the same thing for some mods, so we share a common .

Could you add me on Steam perhaps? warhammerchaosgod

Maybe we could further discuss this there?

Rommel has largely said what was on my mind. I personally think there is nothing wrong with the tried and proven method of VCOH-ish style of conceptualising a faction, as long as you change a few things up, it should be more than fine.

From a historical point of view, there are some faults. Now, it shouldn't be an issue to sacrifice some of it, but you have to take into consideration what the performance of the Italian army was. Some units performed well, some did not. Some vehicles performed well, some did not. For instance, the average Italian soldier (even from RSI) had lackluster performance( compared to German troops in Italy) due to lower morale and lack of effective equipment. Lack of AT weaponry and overall better weaponry suited for the latter years of the war meant that only by fanaticism could they improve their performance, but only slightly and with a high cost. Basically, a 320 manpower squad for a starting Italian squad is way too much and inaccurate. (Don't look at Brits ) You need a more subtle squad. For instance, what about 260 manpower instead and make the squad similar to a cheaper volks unit? This makes them more 'spammable' compensationg for their mediocre combat performance and allowing good vet scaling. The same thing applies to some of the other units in the concept.

HEAT rounds were actually the most effective rounds the Italians had on an average AT gun, so from 47mm to the 75mm ones. They were one of the few armies(alongside the US, I think) that understood the value of HEAT rounds for lower caliber guns, because they gave stable performance and statistics at most ranges and made weaker guns more efficient. This meant that they had good supply of them and production was sort of prioritised. Effetto Pronto were very succesfully used with the Austrian mountain gun conversion (the 47mm). Even going as far as to say that T-34's were knocked out with them. Not bad for a 47mm gun.

I like the global officer upgrade. It's nice and easy. I would put your sector unit either as a call-in or in the HQ.
Not sure of it is a good idea to have a fuel unit work as a sector securer. Neither with a repair unit. I think you should perhaps have a command version of some armoured car or HT variant used in Africa or Italy for more supporting duties. Like the Sdkfz 6, 8, 10, 11 or 232- 8 rad command version. Then, move the repair stuff to other vehicles or to a doctrine.

Give the soldiers some AT grenades and you are good.

How about an Italian recon vehicle instead of a German one? Like the Lince(Copied from the Daimler Dingo )? or a lighter Italian vehicle perhaps.

Tier II looks okay. 45mm could be compensated by giving an incendiary barrage ability and very high packup and setup time. This could be pretty amazing.

I would also give the flamethrower to it and keep the the AT rifle upgrade were you to need emergency AT/soft AT. I doubt it though as you would have the AT gun in the same tier.

Make a split to T3 and T4:

T3 would have the AB 41, the M41 and the 75/18. Arranged in that order and scalable in price and adjustable to the situation. Other units could always be welcome. I think it would be better to add a unit per doctrine from the Germans passively instead of a building with everything in it. The ability is pretty unique though. (Talking about the German building. However, If you don't pick a doctrine, which I know is hypocrisy, but still, you would have a useless building)

T4:

T4 could have the german captured stuff. P26, some other german stuff, The Sturmgeschütz m43 or the Semovente 90/53 is quite a tough one.  I would like the think to have the M43 be the main tank destroyer actually as it was more common than the semovente 90/53. Plus, the Semovente was useless in the mountainous terrain. They even used them as indirect fire support instead of the Tank Destroyer role haha. Like the SU-76. And then put the 90/53 in a mountain warfare doc perhaps. It will double as AT and artillery with an ability. Similar to a beefed up SU-76 from EF or COH2 .

Overall though, I like your stuff. It need still needs historical tweaking. I will keep the gameplay perspective out of it for now.

I would remove as much German influence as you can though if you want a unique faction imo. Only where necessary such as the P.26 or the heavier Semoventes like 105 or 75/34 or 75/46. And relay some of it to the doctrines of course like you already did.

In my opinion, the historical performance, placement and structure of an army mostly indicates how the concept of the faction should be. You'll be killing 2 birds with 1 stone as well, as you'll have authenticity and the other pieces will fit automatically gameplay-wise. But, you could also sacrifice some of it for gameplay reasons. This debate will unfortunately never end lol.

There is much more we could discuss, so if you feel like discussing, hit me up on Steam.

[jonarus_drakus]

Okay, I'll start by responding to some feed-back,

Firstly, on the Sd.Kfz.10 - I'm well aware that it was never used in a scouting (or even direct combat) role, I chose it because it was produced in MASSIVE numbers, was quick (could comfortably do 60kph on hard ground), and was regularly used as a straight-up troop transport. The whole goal was a "scout" vehicle that sacrifices a 'default' weapon in exchange for a small transport capacity (In the Allied list I'm working on, I have the M3 'scout car' filling the same role).
That said, as much as I like the Sd.Kfz.10, it bugs even me a little that there is this 'orphaned' German unit amongst what should be exclusively Italian stuff at TIER:1-2... Fortunately, 'Lord Rommel' gave a perfect suggestion with the 'Autocarro Protetto AS37' - I did some research and found a nice article on the Italian language version of Wikipedia - http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat-SPA_AS37 - Keeping with the 'jeep armour' part of the concept, I will be looking into making use of the cut-down 'desert' versions of the vehicle, replacing the German Flak upgrade with a 2cm Breda upgrade providing the same use.
Speaking of which, the 2cm gun upgrade for this vehicle is the 'universal mobile AA' unit for the list, with heavier AA abilities coming as part of the "Fallschirm Korp" doctrinal TIER3.

For the 'basic infantry' I agree with the suggestion that they could stand to be a little cheaper... The whole list is meant to be 'manpower cheap' (and munitions/fuel expensive) to reflect the Italian excess of manpower, but lack of industrial capacity...
For the infantry unit itself, this is shown through the lack of AT (They had no 'AT rifle' equivalent like the British 'Boys' or the German Panzerbüchse 39), and only a crappy LMG (The M30 was pathetic - 20 round mag, low RoF, complicated mechanism, prone to jamming, etc).

At TIER2 level, there are a few points to touch on... Firstly, I need to confirm the 'build order' for the TIER buildings. With TIER3 being Doctrine specific, I made it skipable, so the TIER4 building requires one of TIER2 *or* TIER3. This was to allow players to reach the 'top end' without being forced into a doctrine early (some people apparently like to wait), as such, TIER2 *had* to be required, as jumping straight from TIER1 to TIER4 wouldn't make any sense... However, I am open to the idea of allowing to do a 1-to-3 skip (4 being enabled via 3 that way).
Secondly - I was seriously considering adding a 'HEAT shot' ability to the AT-gun, and only discounted it because of being TIER2 and wanting to save the more capable AT for TIER3.
Thirdly - On the L3-35, I went with the AT-rifle upgrade over the flamer because the vehicle is already very strong anti-infantry, and I wanted to provide TIER2 with *same* 'fast' AT option. That said, there is technically no reason I couldn't offer BOTH the AT upgrade and a Flamer upgrade.
Fourthly/Finally - Having read the wikipedia article, I'm a real fan of the Brixia. Under 'optimal' conditions it had very nearly twice the RoF of the 81mm mortars. It could also fold up to be carried by one person 'backpack' style, and while a separate loader would make things even faster, it was not a "required" role, the gunner could load by himself (hence the reduced minimum crew requirement - can be operated by one person safely). While an 'incendiary' round is tempting, I didn't read anything about any such rounds in 45mm caliber, so I might be a little stuck with the 'RoF for damage' trade-off... Oh, and for comparison purposes, the Allied list I'm working on also has a 'light mortar' in the the form of the British 2".

Last of the last-of-all... Armour:
To start with, the three tanks fit three roles: 1) 'Support' - slower, focusing on armour and (Anti-infantry) firepower. 2) 'Assualt' - Lighter armour, but faster, focusing on flank attacks. 3) TD - Pure armour pen capacity, able to 'survive' return fire long enough to be effective.
For the 'dedicated TD' I went with the 105/25 mostly due to it's significantly enhanced armour over the 90/53 - It was apparently also 'listed' as a TD historically, unlike it's earlier variants which were more 'assualt gun' in use.
As to the Pz.3, I chose it because from what I could find in my research, it was the most common (German) 'MBT' in the Mediterranean theater, especially North-Africa. But I will concede on the 'command tank' upgrade... It was only really included as an alternative to the 'up-gun'... Maybe give it the 'stubby' gun as an alternate up-gun? That said, I do feel the Pz.3 fits the role of 'flanker' very well, so I'd like to keep the vehicle itself. As a side-note, a number of Pz.3s were provided to Italy before the armistice, so an 'Italian' skinned version would definitely still work.

Okay, I think that covers all of the 'big' stuff that was brought up... Hopefully the 'Doctrines' will help fill in any remaining gaps... And with that, a quick 'lead in' for the doctrines, they are all named as types of "Korp", with a specific theme based on campaigns within the Mediterranean Theater. All three doctrines have 2 'call-ins', 2 'activated abilities', and 2 'unlocks'. All the 'TIER3' production lists will have 4 units, and all will include an 'Elite Infantry' type unit which starts with 'Soldier' grade armour/stats.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Fallschirmjager Korp
(Based primarily in the Airborn Invasion of Crete - Focusing on air-mobile infantry, support weapons, and tactics. CP total for whole doctrine: 14)

"GREEN DEVILS" (left side CP total: 6)

1) "Fallschirm Pfadfinder" (Pathfinders) - 200mp, 3pop - CP:1
Para-drops in a 3-man squad of Fallschirmjager infantry. Initially armed only with Luger pistols and grenades, they can pick up a single 'heavy' weapon (LMG, Panzerschrek, etc).
i) 15mu - Grenade throw (standard).
ii) 75mu - The squad is upgraded with a set of 3 Italian made Beretta M38 smgs, though doing so takes up the 'heavy weapon' slot if it hasn't already been used ((so pick-up a weapon first)).

2) "Ten Commandments" CP:2
"Refining and re-enforcing paratrooper skills, tactics, and 'Espirit de Corp' through doctrine, discipline, and training."
- Enables all Fallschirmjager infantry units to better resist suppression (10% increase to suppression resistance), and grants them the passive 'cover camo' ability.

3) "Old dogs, new tricks" ("Alte Hunde, Neue Streiche") CP:3
"Battlefield experience and technological modernization combine to bring new life (and abilities) to old units." Unlocks the following:
Fallschirmjager Assault team = AT-grenade throw ability.
PaK.36 AT-gun = 'Stielgranate 41 shot' ability.

"AERIAL SUPPLY AND SUPPORT" (right side, combined total CP:

1) Parachute Smoke-flare ("Fallschirm Rauchsignal") - 75mu - CP:2
A light fighter-bomber flies over the battlefield (beyond AA range) and drops a parachute guided 'smoke flare'. The intense flame provides illumination at night, and the coloured smoke provides visual recognition during the day. The device is not designed/intended to directly illuminate hostile targets, rather, it is intended to draw attention to 'areas of interest' for intense observation from the ground.
In practical terms, it 'reveals' a large-diameter (~30m?) circle of the battlefield as it slowly drifts to the ground over 30sec. Once it lands it continues to burn for a further 30sec, though it only reveals a smaller area during this time (~20m?).

2) "Equipment Drop" - 100f - CP:3
Calls in a Go.244 powered transport-glider that drops a sequence of three 'packaged heavy weapon crates', always in the same order; red, yellow, white. The aircraft moves slowly, but at a higher altitude, protecting it from AA fire and allowing the crates to land safely, if somewhat spread out (in a rough line with ~10-20m spacing). Once landed the crates can be collected by any 'infantry' unit at which point they 'spawn' the crewed weapon associated with the crates coloured marking:
i) 'red stripe' - MG_34 (HMG variant. Requires 1-3 men to collect, minimum of 1 man to operate)
ii) 'yellow stripe - Kz_8_cm_GrW_42 (Same range and abilities as WM mortar, but with slightly worse 'accuracy degradation' at extreme ranges. Requires 2-3 men to collect, 2 men minimum to operate.)
iii) 'white stripe' - 7.5_cm_Leichtgeschutz_40 (Requires 1-3 men to collect, minimum of 1 man to operate.)
NOTE: The crates are only lightly secured and can just as easily be 'collected' by hostile infantry, try to ensure that you have multiple collecting units ready.

3) "Trumpets of Jericho" (Ju.87.D/5 Dive-bombing attack) - 250mu - CP:3
A wing of 3 Ju.87.D/5's conduct a sequence of dive-bombing runs on the targeted area (must be within LoS to activate the ability), strafing with their dual MG.151/20 cannons, then dropping a single 250kg bomb. The fighters attack one at a time, continuing until either all 3 have made their runs, or no enemies remain within the target zone. The steep dive limits maneuverability, making it difficult to hit fast-moving targets (sprinting/retreating infantry, fast vehicles).
The 20mm MGs are effective against infantry of all kinds, as well as light-to-medium armoured vehicles (all hits count as rear-armour hits). The 250kg bomb works like an off-map artillery strike, decimating grouped infantry, and capable of penetrating the armour of even heavy vehicles with a direct hit (due to the angle of attack, all hits count as rear armour hits).
Due to the angle of the 'dive' attack, the Ju.87s can not be targeted by AA fire until they themselves have already started to attack, meaning at least some strafing damage is guaranteed (though the bomb drop can be interrupted if the AA is quick enough).


4) Teir 3 base-building production - Parachute Armoury ("Fallschirm Waffenkammer")

a) "Fallschimjager Sturmtrupp" (Paratrooper Assualt team) - 340mp, 4pop
4-man Fallschirmjager infantry squad armed with K98k rifles as standard, but recieving multiple upgrades via tech and doctrine unlocks. Has basic grenades and one 'heavy weapon' slot at default.
i) 75mu - All squad members replace their K98ks with MP38/40 SMGs, boosting their short-range firepower significantly at the cost of effective range and accuracy. Does not take up the 'heavy weapon' slot (and is thus compatible with the LMG upgrade).
ii) 75mu - Equips the squad with a single LMG-34 to enhance firepower and suppression at all ranges at the cost of slightly reduced mobility (LMG is 'move-or-fire').
iii) 15mu - Grenade throw (basic frag)
iv) 35mu - AT-Grenade throw - requires "Old Dogs, New Tricks" tech upgrade.

b) "3.7cm Pak.36" (Special AT-gun) - 280mp, 3pop
1x Pak.36 with a 3-man Fallschirmjager crew (Gunner, loader, and spotter with K98k). Once the 'Ambush tactics' tech upgrade has been researched, the Pak.36 gains a 'semi-active' camo ability (Hybrid ability, most similar to Hellcat and Hetzer 'ambush lock-down' abilities).
50mu - Fires a late-war 'Stielgranate 41' round. While it's low velocity limits range and accuracy against fast moving targets, it receives a large boost to both penetration (+50%) and damage (+25%), allowing the otherwise 'light-weight' weapon to be effective again 'full armoured' tanks. Requires the 'Old Dogs, New Tricks' tech upgrade.

c) Parachute Sharp-shooter ("Fallschirm Scharfschutzen") - 340mp, 4pop
Single Fallschirmjager trooper aremed with a scoped K98 rifle. Has basic 'pasive camo' as standard, upgrading to full 'active' camo with 'Ambush tactics' tech research. Compared to his WM and US contemporaries, he has a lower RoF, but even greater range. Requires '10 Commandments' doctrine research to unlock.

d) "Sd.Kfz.6/2" (Multi-role support Half-track) - 260mp, 20f, 4pop
Medium un-armoured half-track with a semi-permanent 3.7cm FlaK.36 AA-gun and a crew of 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_6). While technically un-armoured, the vehicle is big, bulky, and well made, allowing high HP. This also makes it (just) stable enough as a gun-platform to be able to fire 'on the move' (though with an accuracy penalty). Despite it's weight, it is still 'nimble' enough to out-run anything it can't out-gun ((if well managed anyway!)).
i) 100mp, 75mu - 'Upgrades' the vehicle to the rare Sd.Kfz.6/3 variant mounting the same 7.62cm FK.36(r) that was used as the basis for the "Marder II/III" series tank-destroyers (though the 'FK' variant is more multi-role than the more specialized Pak.36(r) on the Marder). The gun is mounted in moderately armoured superstructure, firing forward. The armoured superstructure makes the vehicle resistant to non-AP small-arms and 'shrapnel' damage. The higher recoil of the larger caliber gun requires the vehicle to 'lock down' in order to fire, which combined with the limited traverse (60 degree total arc), impairs mobility. However, the weapon has a respectable RoF, and is accurate to extended ranges, allowing it to be emplaced behind screening forces safely. Note, the combined weight increase of the gun and the armoured superstructure also impares movement speed, slowing the vehicle by 25%.
ii) "Site gun" (both variants) - Locks down the vehicle, immobilizing it in return for increased sight range and accuracy. 6/3 variant can ONLY fire in when in this mode.

((This one was a tough spot to fill, as I wanted something with improved AA over the 2cm guns, hence the 3.7cm - But I couldn't find anything 'armoured' with that gun that hadn't already been used... If only the 'Flakpanzer 38t' had mounted the 3.7cm instead of the 2cm... It's still an obvious alternative to this vehicle though.))

e) Doctrine Building-specific upgrades:
i) "Ambush tactics" ("Hinterhalt-taktik") - 200mp
"Building on earlier stealth doctrines and tactics, the Fallschirm Korp evolves new skills to gain an advantage in combat." Unlocks the following:
PaK.36 AT-gun = 'Ambush camo' ability.
Sharpshooter = 'Active camo' upgraded ability.
Requires the '10 Commandments' Doctrinal unlock.


Well, that covers the first doctrine, the other two I will post separately later, but for reference sake, they are the "Afrikakorp" and "Mountain Korp" doctrines.

~JD

[jonarus_drakus]

I *was* going to wait a little longer, especially since I normally *hate* double-posting... But I'm bored and I was gonna post this sooner or later... So! Two more Doctrines coming at you!


Afrikakorps
(Based on the historic formation of the same name, with a focus on armour, anti-armour, and manouver warfare. CP combined total: 15)

"GHOST DIVISION" (left side - combined total CP: 7 )

1) The German Griffin ("Die Deutsche Greif") - 500mp, 6pop - CP:3
Calls in a Sd.Kfz.250/3 command vehicle, complete with (permanently mounted) command squad. The vehicle is armed with a mounted MG-42 maned directly by the officer, acting as both vehicle and squad Commander (Plus the 2 G-41 rifles of the two bodyguards).
The Vehicle provides a decent size 'command aura' which boosts all friendly infantry in range, increasing their movement speed and supression resistance by 25% each, there-by allowing them to keep up with the mechanized elements of the army.
There can only be one command half-track (per player) on the field at any given time.

2) Seize the moment ("Carpe Tempore") CP:2
"Create an opportunity, then exploit it!"
Upon activation, this ability slows ALL (infantry & vehicle) enemy movement speeds by 25% for 60sec (Can be overridden by movement boosters such a 'fire up', etc). Meanwhile, ALL allied (player only?) movement speeds are boosted by 25% for 180sec (cumulative with Command half-track boost to effectively enable all infantry to sprint).

3) The Chosen Few ("Die Auserwahlten") CP:2
"We are the fortunate few, inheritors of the Legacy of the Afrikakorp..."
On the 13th of May, 1943, the shattered and exhausted remnants of the Infamous Afrikakorp were forced to surrender to the Allies... But it would be foolish to think that there were no 'escapees' at all, trafered units, re-located wounded, etc. These men were rightly recognised as 'Elite Veterans'. Many were spread through other units to share the benifits of their experience, but some other units were kept together and continued their fight against the Allies in the Italian campaign...
Unlocks various 'modernization' type upgrades for Afrikakorp units and boosts all Afrikakorp infantry HP by +5 per man (affects 'Afrikakorp Grenadiers' and 'Afrika-korp tank-hunters').

"Panzerkrieg" ("Armoured Warfare" - right side, combined total CP: 8 )

1) Luftwaffe co-operation CP:1
Enables 'recon flights' for 50mu each (Functionally Identical to the US-Airborn ability).

2) Anti-Armour Tactics ("Antipanzertaktic") CP:3
"Development and refinement of skills & tactics to enable infantry units to better combat armoured threats." - Unlocks upgraded 'panzerfaust' ability for Afrikakorp Grenadiers. Unlocks the training of Afrikakorp Tank-Hunters.

3) Pz.Kfw.VI "Tiger" ("Wüstenkatze") - 700mp, 80f, 14pop - CP:5
Calls in an 'early production' Tiger tank, rushed to the front to catch the allied forces by surprise and crush them. Maximum of 1 (per player) on the field at any time.
((Statistically equal to un-upgraded/un-vetted EF 'build-able' Tiger, but as a one-at-a-time call-in.))

4) Teir 3 base-building production - Army Depot of the Afrika-Korp ("Heers-depot des Afrikakorp")

a) Afrikakorp Grenadiers ("Grenadiere der Afrikakorp") - 320mp, 4pop
4-man team armed with G-41 semi-auto rifles. Gains multiple enhancements/unlocks via tech and doctrine upgrades. Comes with basic anti-infantry and anti-armour 'activated abilities'. Has a single 'heavy weapon' slot.
i) 15mu - Grenade throw (basic frag) - Is upgraded with "Splittering" (frag casing) after "The Chosen Few" modernization doctrine is unlocked, boosting the damage done.
ii) 30mu - "Fire Faustpatrone 30" - Fires an early variant of the 'panzerfaust'. Short ranged and inaccurate, but capable of penetrating almost any armour on a direct hit. Note: Shape of the early charges made 'bounces' more likely, despite the penetration ability of the round. Is upgraded to, and replaced by, "Fire Panzerfaust 60" with 'Antipanzertaktic' doctrinal upgrade, increasing the damage and reducing the 'bounce' chance.
iii) 100mu - Equips all 4 squad members with 'early production' MP43/44' assault rifles, significantly boosting rate of fire over the G-41, without sacrificing long-range accuracy (short range accuracy is given an effective boost due to the 'burst fire' of the weapons - The weapon fires a 3-shot burst for every single shot from a G-41). Requires 'The Chosen Few' Modernization doctrine unlock. DOES take up the heavy weapon slot, but can still be taken if a heavy weapon has already been acquired.

b) Afrikakorp tank-hunters ("Panzer-jager der Afrikakorp") - 360mp, 3pop
3-man team consisting of NCO and loader with G-41 rifles, and a 'gunner' with a RPzB.43 "Ofenrohr" rocket-launcher. Requires 'Antipanzertaktic' doctrinal upgrade to unlock. Despite operating as infantry, they are trained to act akin to a 'weapons team'. As such, they can NOT be used to capture crewed weapons.

c) "Sd.Kfz.250/1" Multi-role light half-track - 225mp, 25f, 4pop
Standard 'light infantry transport' with decent speed and enough armour to resist non-AP small-arms. Standard varient comes equiped with a single MG-34 with a dedicated gunner. It can transport a single squad of up to 6 men, up to 3 of whom my fire their personal weapons (including LMGs, shreks, etc) from the open-topped rear. Can be upgraded to more specialized varients:
i) 250/9 - 120mu = Dedicated 'armoured recon' varient which sacrifices it's transport capability in order to mount a semi-enclosed turret with a 2cm KwK.38 and co-axial MG-42. Requires "Advanced Recon Elements" tech upgrade.
ii) 250/11 - 80mu = Light anti-armour support varient which sacrifices it's transport capability in order to mound a forward-firing 2.8cm sPzB.41 AT-rifle, it's crew, and it's ammo. Requires "AT-gun Mobilization" tech upgrade.

d) Sd.Kfz.131 Marder II "Kohlenklau" ("Coal Thief") - 270mp, 40f, 5pop
Built on the late production Pz.II 'F' chassis (and earlier chassis converted to 'F' standards), and with enough armour to be immune to all non-AT weapons (If only from the front), and armed with the versatile, long ranged, PaK.40. Requires the "AT-gun mobilization" tech upgrade to unlock.
i) 'Site Main Gun' - The Marder crew locks the vehicle down, and the driver switches to an 'assistant loader' role, allowing the gunner to focus on his task. The end results are respectable boosts to rate-of-fire, range, and accuracy (As per PE-Marder3 ability).

e) Doctrinal special building upgrades:
i) "AT-gun mobilization"
"Make mobile that which is not." - Apply lessons learned on the Eastern front (and elsewhere), to mount dedicated AT weapons on armoured chassis, so that they may keep up with the advance of faster units.
ii) "Advanced Recon Elements"
"We have to find them before we can shoot them." - Improved the standard sight range of light vehicles (Sd.Kfz.250/1, Sd.Kfz.250/9, Sd.Kfz.250/3), and also gives them a short-range stealth detection ability (While not up to the level of the 'scout sight' of the dedicated recon vehicle, this ability helps close the gap a little, while also making it 'front line' effective).


Mountain Korp
(Italian-RSI doctrine, with limited German support. Infantry, artillery, and defense focused. List combined CP total: 12)

"German Support" left side ("Supporto Tedesco") - combined total CP: 7)

1) Advanced Technology ("Tecnologia Avanzata") CP:2
"La Germania e Veramente Vostra Amica" ("Germany is Truely your friend") - Germany supports it's Italian allies by supplying advanced weapons, ammunition, and equipment. Unlocks training of S-18-1000 teams. Unlocks tech research options at the tier3 base-building.

2) German Rainstorm ("Deutsch Regensturm") CP:2
"The fatherland shall bring a rain of death to the enemy." - Activated ability for 150mu. Calls in target smoke followed by a 6-shot barrage from off-map heavy artillery. The large caliber shells are devastating against infantry and can seriously damage all but the most heavily armoured tanks. Requires line-of-sight to the target area.

3) 28/32cm NbW.41 Rocket artillery ("Nebeltruppen") - 345mp, 6pop - CP:3
Medium rocket artillery piece with three crew. Can only fire in barrages of six shots. Standard 28cm HE barrage has a medium AoE/blast, and high 'burst' damage, but has only moderate effect on hardened/armoured targets.
i) 50mu - Fires a barrage of 32cm Incendiary rockets with a larger AoE and an on-going 20sec 'burn' of the effected area, but has low 'burst' damage and even less effect on hardened/armoured targets.
Regardless of ammo type fired, the weapon has an extended reload time of 120sec (compared to 90sec for the WM version - though in this case it can be slightly reduced via veterancy).

"Fascist Indoctrination" (right side, combined total CP: 5)

1) "Stand for Italy!" ("Supporto per l'Italia!") - CP:1
Decreases all (player) infantry training times by 25%

2) "Blackshirt Brigade" (assault infantry) - 280mp, 5pop - CP:2
5-man infantry squad equipped with Berreta M38/42 SMGs. Fanatical unit with good morale (suppression resistance), but lacking in skill or discipline (lower HP, 'infantry' armour type, low accuracy at anything other than very short range). Has a single 'heavy weapon' slot.
i) 20mu - Grenade throw (basic frag)
ii) 80mu - Grenade assault (as per Bersaglieri unit, but up to 5 grenades over 6 seconds - Requires 'grenadier tradition' tech upgrade).

3) "Defensive Propaganda" CP:2
"Better to die with head held high, than to be condemned as a coward." - Activated ability costing 100mu, targeting friendly units. All friendly Infantry within the area of effect are immobilized for 240seconds. During this time, they are also immune to pinning, and receive a 25% boost to their rate of fire. NOTE: Friendly unit under the effect of this ability can not voluntarily retreat!

4) Teir 3 base-building production - Special Barracks ("Caserma Speciali")

a) "Bersaglieri" (Marksmen) - 320mp, 4pop
4-man Elite infantry unit of the Italian Army. Armed with Carcano M1938 rifles cambering larger 7.35mm rounds, increasing 'per-shot' damage over the basic infantry carbines. The high level of marksmanship training also boosts the units RoF and accuracy (at all ranges).
i) 20mu - Grenade throw (Basic frag).
ii) 75mu - 'Grenade Assault' - All (living) unit members throw a grenade each in quick succession (up to 4 over 5 seconds). All grenades are standard 'frag' type, and act as normal once thrown. Requires 'Grenadier Tradition' tech unlock.

b) "Cannone da 75/32 M.37" Medium field gun - 300mp, 3pop
General-purpose field gun with 3 crew (Gunner, loader, and spotter with M91/24 carbine). Very long range, but low RoF and only moderate muzzle velocity. Good against grouped infantry (small AoE), but only moderately effective against light-to-medium armour (low/moderate penetration and damage).
i) 50mu - fires a single HEAT round with increased penetration and damage capacity, but with lower range and lower accuracy against fast targets.

c) Light AT sniper-rifle ("Waffenteam mit s-18-1000") - 250mp, 3pop
Swiss made 2cm light anti-tank "cannon" with 3 'crew' (NCO/Spotter & loader with K98k rifles, plus gunner - only needs 1 man to operate). Severe recoil requires the weapon to be 'set up' in order to fire, but it is otherwise man-portable. Can garrison in structures like a HMG team, and operates in a similar fashion in general, but with a semi-auto light-AT weapon instead of the MG. Scope aids accuracy against all targets and makes 'sniping' of infantry a possibility (especially with veterancy). Despite a very high muzzle velocity, rounds are simply too small to be effective against anything other than light armour.
i) 30mu - "White-hot shot" - Fires a rare and expensive white-phosphorous round with improved penetration (+25%), and critical chance (+50%). Requires 'German tech-support' tech upgrade.

d) "Semovente 47/32" light/compact TD - 260mp, 35f, 5pop
Small, quick, and agile, with enough armour to be able to resist all small-arms fire. Due to it's tiny dimensions (less the 2m wide!), it can squeze through gaps other tanks can't, and with it light weight, it can cross 'light' bridges safely too. This manoverability alows this light tank to remain useful well beyond the limitations of it's tech. It mounts only a single, highly accurate 47mm gun (Can get a top/pintle mount HMG with veterancy). Unfortunately, the guns moderate muzzle velocity and low caliber mean it lacks the strength to punch through thick (or sloped) armour with any reliability, limiting it's use against vehicles, and although it is accurate enough to get the occasional 'luck snipe', it's lack of explosive AoE means it is of little use against infantry. Ultimately making it a vehicle that need tactical skill to be effective, but it's size and speed give it more options.

e) Tier 3 building tech upgrades:
i) "Grenadier Tradition" - Enables 'Bersaglieri' and 'Blackshirt Division' units to perform 'grenade assault' attacks. Requires Doctrinal 'Advanced technology' unlock.
ii) "German tech support" - Enables the 'White-hot shot' ability of the s-18-1000. Requires Doctrinal 'advanced technology' unlock.

[CoHtaku]

Greetings jonarus_drakus,

It appears we have much in common, you and i -- Many of your ideas are exactly the same as, or at least very similar to, mine own. You have a good concept here, however i'd like to correct you on one point if i may:

For the infantry unit itself, this is shown through the lack of AT (They had no 'AT rifle' equivalent like the British 'Boys' or the German Panzerbüchse 39)

The Karabin Przeciwpancerny Wzór 35 was a Polish anti-tank rifle which was captured in large quantities by the Germans after the fall of Poland, ~800 of which were then sold to the Italians in 1940 as per Article IV of the Patto d'Acciaio and used under the designation Fucile Controcarro 35(p). I think it would be wise to give your Italian/German faction a dedicated non-doctrinal infantry anti-tank weapon, as paid abilities are too unreliable, and light vehicles such as the Carro Veloce are too easily countered by most tanks.

Cheers, and good luck with your mod.

[Sommarkatze]

Otherwise you always have the Solothurn anti tank rifle that both the Germans and Italy used ; >

[jonarus_drakus]

I already have the s-18-1000 in the list in a couple of forms - As a gun upgrade on the CV-35, and as a MG-like weapons team in the 'Mountain Korp' doctrine.

All new updates will be on the 'Steam Group' page I have set up: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/CoH_MedMod/

~JD

[jonarus_drakus]

Gah... Double-posting again...

But, this act of Necromancy is for a good cause! I have a couple of very important questions to put to the people who frequent the EF forums:

1) "What would you want to see in a Mediterranean Theatre Allied (mostly British) faction ('41-to-late '43)?"
2) "What sort of unique faction-wide mechanic do you think would suit such an army (built around a basic 0-3/4 tier structure)?"

I have ideas for doctrines, but the only one that is particularly solid is my 'Rats of Tobruk'  themed doctrine, focusing on infantry tactics, urban combat, and defense. I know I want a 'slow grind' pure British doctrine with heavy armour and mobile arty, and a US doctrine with light-to-medium armour and a maneuverability focus...

In the mean time, I'll just leave some concept art here:
http://jonarus-drakus.deviantart.com/art/Infantry-Barracks-Caserma-di-Fanteria-520045408
http://jonarus-drakus.deviantart.com/art/Support-Barracks-Caserma-di-Sopporto-520574691

Its undoubtedly no longer needed now, but I'll put it 'on the record' anyway - EF team, if you want any 'concept art' just let me know.

~JD

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Like i said in the past; You should focus on a special time frame. A "battle of Italy" is already different from a "Africa Korps" style.
Weapons will change a lot between this two theatres (e.g. phase out of the british Cruiser tanks).

This fact could already be influenced by your 3d-skills and access to 3d-stuff.
All in all your project will stay or fall with your 3d skills/resources.

There were so much Italian projects in CoH but none was released.

[krupp steel]

Do we proceed with the further discussion?