The Royal Marines Commando issue

[bavbav]

You have to remember that all british infantry are naturally tougher than all other in fantry. So you cant just change 1 thing about them without making 2000 more. Also we dont touch vCoH factions. If that was the case werh blitz shower would be re balanced. Nades that not only stun normal infantry, preretreat but even while retreating.

yeah i realize you dont change original factions, but maybe as a reward like faction, like rmc was.

concerning about infantry price decrease but not power, well i think its pretty simple, brit infantry without upgrades sucks. i sincerely doubt more squads are more powerful if u take into consideration that the other changes like no free ops means no easy munis to upgrade riflenades/brens and also restricts healing which costs 40 munis by alot. result is more squads and more caping power, but they are not strong at all. unupgraded they are also highly vulnerable to mgs. combined with much weaker trenches, i believe they would play much more like americans, able to take teritory abit more easy, but not with the insane power of upgraded stuff. that concerns also bren carier, if u have no free ops, how can it be repaired indefinately like in vcoh? i believe it balances out

but ofcourse balance is debatable. for example when u said wehr assault nades, are they really broken? vs americans nah, u hit 1 squad, whatever for 50 munis its neglected by retreat, ofcourse need to retreat in time clearly, like it used to be vs pe g43 slow. they are cleary very imba vs brits tho, because of brits blob, slow squads and expensive infantry, it works wonders and if u manage to get it off while theyre at hq truck, its game over. would assault nades still be imba if brits would have infantry more like americans? i doubt it.

well anyway whatever happens with rmc, dont overly complicate it like relic did with brits. and when i mention this, id like to say also, soviets and ostheer have their own weird things, not to the scope of pe and brit ofcourse, but they actualy feel like they have too many upgrades or stuff. nice example is for instance the diffrent upgrades soviet infantry gets with diffrent doctrines. or nothing..... so many units seem to overlap, something that doesnt happen with original 4 relic factions much at all. well id give more exact examples but not for this thread.

[sniper_bow]

Keep the RMC.


However, I think we should combine some of the ideas in this thread. I think for doctrines, they could have RAF, Royal Navy support, and something like the Free French as choices. I also personally think that the foreign faction for the Axis should be its own faction instead of reward as well. I don't know how the devs'd feel about that but that's just my two pennies. Anyways for RMC they should have a dedicated sniper. It would be amazing. I also say they should get a command squad like the SU. Anyways I hope they stay. 

This from colonel says it all for me especially about the dedicated sniper for Brits as I have mentioned this throughout on forums and RAF & Royal Naval support would be epic keep RMC as balance is key without the RMC its 3 axis vs 2 Allied as vanilla Brits are bloody awful.

[ShiftySAS]

I believe the Royal Marine Commandos deserve a second chance. Even though this mod focuses on the Eastern Front this faction is another great addition to the game and allows for players to have another play style to choose from. With the British being more defensive minded, the US and Soviets are the only two factions on the allies side that can switch both ways. The axis on the other hand, have now three different factions to choose from where you can play either way(attack minded or defensive minded). Playing as the Royal Marine Commandos was a fun experience even though they were broken. So lets give the chaps another go at it commanders.

[WiseLebron2000]

First I want to commend the EF team for the work they have done.  This mod is phenomenal and is testament to the hard work and dedication of the programming and balancing crews.  In my opinion Eastern Front in its current form far surpasses COH 2. 

Second, I vote for keeping RMC.  I like having as many diverse units sets as possible and I think removing the option from the game is unnecessary.  Those that dislike certain factions can state when setting up a game their individual restrictions.  For those of us that prefer as many options as possible keeping the RMC is preferred.  Splitting them into another faction would be great too if the programming team feels it has the time and energy to make such a commitment.  I would certainly support that as well.

Thirdly, Michaelcycle13's suggestion about combining with the Afrika Corps group sounds like a great option if technically possible.  Again adding more factions adds diversity and breaths new life into the game.  Artificially restricting the types of units/factions available based on the title ("Eastern Front") is, in my opinion, naive and short sighted.  I believe this community is more interested in expanding the life and excitement of the COH experience than maintaining a rigid adherence to historical accuracy.  Every game has a certain shelf life - even COH - so why not try to extend this shelf life as much as possible by continuing to expand to new theaters of war and adding new units and options.

Hope these suggestions are at least somewhat useful.  Thanks!

[Blackbishop]

@Michaelcycle13 and @WiseLebron2000
Do you guys know that doing what you suggest means there won't be RMC at all right? Because the Desert Rats would fit that position.

[WiseLebron2000]

I see.  Well I guess in a perfect world it would be nice to see the "Desert Rat" faction included along with the German Afrika Corps.  If this meant replacing the RMC then so be it.  But again the idea would be to alleviate the programming burden on you and the rest of the EF crew by piggybacking off of the work of the Afrika Corps group.  This would potentially add two additional factions without nearly the amount of work required to develop them from scratch.  Again my perspective is that the more units/factions/maps the better.  Anyway to get there easily would, I believe, be helpful.

All that said I am very pleased with EF and the amount of time and effort that has gone into it as is.  I would not want to ask something of group of volunteers who have graciously provided their work for our enjoyment.  Please feel free to continue as best you see fit.  I look forward to any future additions!

[GeneralStratus]

Just to echo what was stated, i commend the developers for all their work in making this great EF mod. I agree with what wiselebron stated. I feel the more options the better and believe the vanilla brits are pretty weak against every armor. Also, quite frankly I think the RMC are much more fun to play. Splitting them into a new faction would be fine, I would just prefer the option to choose the RMC or a modified brit faction. 

[prilladog]

Keep them as a standalone. I loved playing them as it made Brits interesting since their uber nerf.

Having them removed actually makes going over to CoH 2 slightly more appealing.

[Blackbishop]

@prilladog
Yeah, specially because CoH2 has brits .

[demon_llama]

I'll like to suggest an alternative solution to the Royal Marine Commando issue. Create a new faction modeled after 1st Canadian Army and make the Royal Marines one of their 3 optional supports. There are a number of advantages to this approach:

1) Historically 1st Canadian Army was responsible to clearing the North-West European coast (Northern France, West Belgium, Netherlands) and frequently fought with the support of the real Royal Marines (cf. Battle of the Scheldt on Wikipedia).
2) 1st Canadian Army used predominantly British equipment (which players want to use in a more aggressive manner), but were responsible for the creation of some interesting equipment of their own (eg Wasp IIC, Ram Kangaroo, Sexton) which could be highlighted in the Canadian Faction.
3) It doesn't involve modifying the existing British Army (which the mod creators have no interest in doing)
4) 1st Canadian Army included Canadian, British and Polish units (as well as American, Belgian, Dutch and Czech units at different times) giving it a multinational feel similar to the Ostheer faction
5) It avoids the issue of having a "Commando Faction" which would seem imbalanced compared to the other factions.

Ideas for Canadian units could include:
2-inch mortars (A common piece among British infantry: lighter and handier than other mortars, but with less range and less power)
Bren carrier with Wasp IIC upgrade (This flamethrower equiped Bren carrier had a fuel tank on the rear allowing the vehicle to still be used as a troop carrier)
Ram Kangaroo (Heavy infantry transport)
Humber Armoured Car (Humber II had a HMG and a LMG, upgrade to Humber IV for a 37mm gun)
Sherman V (Upgrade to Sherman IC [more commonly called the Firefly]
Archer (A defensive AT vehicle that featured a 17pdr firing over the rear of the vehicle)
Sexton (A SP 25pdr on a modified Ram tank chassis)
Royal Marines could function as a form of elite infantry for the Canadian base faction, with the option for more Royal Marine equipment if one chooses Royal Marine Support.

Obviously this would all be a ton of work, but I hope the idea of a Canadian Army might give some inspiration.

[LiefTundra]

I'll like to suggest an alternative solution to the Royal Marine Commando issue. Create a new faction modeled after 1st Canadian Army and make the Royal Marines one of their 3 optional supports. There are a number of advantages to this approach:

1) Historically 1st Canadian Army was responsible to clearing the North-West European coast (Northern France, West Belgium, Netherlands) and frequently fought with the support of the real Royal Marines (cf. Battle of the Scheldt on Wikipedia).
2) 1st Canadian Army used predominantly British equipment (which players want to use in a more aggressive manner), but were responsible for the creation of some interesting equipment of their own (eg Wasp IIC, Ram Kangaroo, Sexton) which could be highlighted in the Canadian Faction.
3) It doesn't involve modifying the existing British Army (which the mod creators have no interest in doing)
4) 1st Canadian Army included Canadian, British and Polish units (as well as American, Belgian, Dutch and Czech units at different times) giving it a multinational feel similar to the Ostheer faction
5) It avoids the issue of having a "Commando Faction" which would seem imbalanced compared to the other factions.

Ideas for Canadian units could include:
2-inch mortars (A common piece among British infantry: lighter and handier than other mortars, but with less range and less power)
Bren carrier with Wasp IIC upgrade (This flamethrower equiped Bren carrier had a fuel tank on the rear allowing the vehicle to still be used as a troop carrier)
Ram Kangaroo (Heavy infantry transport)
Humber Armoured Car (Humber II had a HMG and a LMG, upgrade to Humber IV for a 37mm gun)
Sherman V (Upgrade to Sherman IC [more commonly called the Firefly]
Archer (A defensive AT vehicle that featured a 17pdr firing over the rear of the vehicle)
Sexton (A SP 25pdr on a modified Ram tank chassis)
Royal Marines could function as a form of elite infantry for the Canadian base faction, with the option for more Royal Marine equipment if one chooses Royal Marine Support.

Obviously this would all be a ton of work, but I hope the idea of a Canadian Army might give some inspiration.

I really like the sound of that

[tehjdot]

Although I've missed the vote I would still like to get in my opinion. I'm not sure exactly how it is unbalanced, I don't know if they are over-powered, but I assume they are simply under-powered. It is my opinion that things shouldn't be removed, only changed or added to. The removal of the RMC would really turn me off of the eastern front mod.

Ceteris Paribus, if they are under-powered, you can ignore them. They are really only an issue to the people who choose to play them. Usually the people who choose to play a specific faction, choose to do so because they enjoy the character and or the specific tactics/strategies of that faction. It is more about the journey, rather than the destination. Removing it would remove a lot of fun for a lot of people.

I don't think that it is important that this is an 'Eastern Front' mod. The overall objective of this mod is to make CoH more fun!

[Magyar]

and frequently fought with the support of the real Royal Marines (cf. Battle of the Scheldt on Wikipedia)

Were they responsible for fortifying the centre island with the high fuel and ammunition and then spamming 25 pounders to bombard the German positions?

[demon_llama]

and frequently fought with the support of the real Royal Marines (cf. Battle of the Scheldt on Wikipedia)

Were they responsible for fortifying the centre island with the high fuel and ammunition and then spamming 25 pounders to bombard the German positions?

  That wasn't exactly the approach taken during the Battle of the Scheldt, but the 25 pdr was an important piece of equipment for Commonwealth forces. Artillery was generally the only area in which German soldiers thought that the Allies had an edge on a piece for piece basis. I've read a lot of accounts from both perspectives concerning the devastating nature of 25 pdr artillery fire.

[Michaelcycle13]

Hey Hey, in response to BlackBishop.
Perhaps if you were to negotiate with that other modding group you could find a mix style of Britain that satisfies not only the Eastern Front community but also the Afrika Modders. I'm saying here you have an opportunity to easily exceed and go up and beyond of what people thought possible. Creating a balanced Mod with 8 Factions! 8! And it wouldn't take much effort at all because the Afrika Modders have already basically assembled and designed 95% of the mod.

Even if the Desert Rats don't answer the RMC question maybe you could design your Eastern Front Brits, while adding the Desert Rats. So there could be Northern British troops and Southern British Troops adding a whole new diversity/angle to British military. You could input the maps designed by Afrika Mod into EF making it, OH EF and AK.
Combining the two communities could also bring much publicity and popularity to the Eastern Front mod along with bedazzled VCOH founds who just learned that there's a mod with 8 Factions in Company of Heroes.

I just don't understand why two great Modding groups wouldn't try to combine to completely top off the diversity of World War II.
In my eyes most work would come from balancing the newly added factions.

Can I get some feedback here? C'mon guys, let's bring us 8 factions