New member, and thoughts on the potential of the eastern front's german army

[ludov]

Hello. I've been a long term fan of DoW1's modding community and a recentish one of CoH's thanks to various mods such as Europe in Ruins, Battle of the Bulge and, more recently, discovering the Eastern front mod.

So far, I've looked at the plans for eastern front and, I have to say, they are really great looking in regard to the russians. And though I know devs have mentionned how they prefer to concentrate(understandably) on the russian faction first and foremost, I cannot help but think an army based on the german force could easil be very interesting and original in its own way enough to truly set itself apart from the forces stationed in the west due to the different situation in the east.

Currently, the german factions of CoH represent the forces that fought in normandy, which fighting was pretty much the germans trying to defend themselves against the allied onslaught. This is very well established in the bunkers and defensive doctrine of the wehrmach and how all of its infantry is able to to lay sandbags and barbed wires. Even the Panzer Elite, a faction known for its mobility, see many elements of a defensive role in each of its doctrines(scorched earth is centered on this with booby traps, barbed wires, tank traps and sector artillery, tank hunters does so as well with its ambushable hetzers and luftwaffe has both the flakvierling and the flak 88 at its disposal) somehow reflecting a bit the defensive roles even those mobile forces were forced into due to the allies' invasion.

However, in what role did the German army start on the east? As invaders. And though they were (relatively) quickly put in a defensive stance, they didn't remain there as long as the army in the west had to setup the kind of defensive infrstructures of bunkers and such that were presents in the west. In fact, due to this nature on base structure and visuals the Eastern Germans probably would have bases more alike to the Americans', with quickly made structures of wood and nets and quickly made field engineering shops, than the bunker structures of the western Wehrmacht. Heck, their MGs nests might very well be wooden pillbox rather than the concrete bunkers of the west.

Then, the air war. In the west, the use of the air force was almost entiredly devoted to trying to stall the long range western bombers from bombing germany's industry. In the east, though, the luftwaffe fought mainly by providing close ground support to troops like the russian's air force did. That alone could make an eastern german army able to call on a luftwaffe doctrine closer to that of the american's, with possible strafing runs or maybe a Stuka's dive bomber bombing run(which could be focused into a rapid-response bomb strike able to take out most tanks or emplacement, but in a very focused blast and little warning other than the very audible "horn" of the stuka's) and supplies drops(on which the eastern german army depended a lot... though the quality of such was often lacking it might still be implemented).

And also, I could very well say maybe another variant of the "scorched earth" doctrine adapted to this faction, to represent how desperate they got later during the war, with possible options such as being able to build defensive trenches, use of demo charges(rather than goliaths, though I'm not familiar if they could have been more prevalent in the east than the west) which could be setup like commando's and maybe the uses of barricade roadblocks akin as to how I heard they were set by the PE in the original version of OF(aka: in lines rather than tank-traps like "blocks") to represent the more desperate attempts to stall the russian's advance.... though I'm really unsure how the germans truly fought during that period of the war.

And then let's not forget all the other vehicles and weapons that were used in the east as opposed to the west which could also be an opportunity to bring out some more older models like Panzers/Stugs 3, the Elefant/Ferdinand(which could be a doctrine call-in for a doctrine representing the early war offensive when they were most used.... in fact, an eastern german faction could very well see it's doctrines based on such phases, such as the luftwaffe superiority period, the armored offensive and then the more desperate defense periods... just a thought like that though).

Edit: technically, though, in a "period approach", then an eastern german army could potentially even use a battle-of-the-bulge style doctrine system where units, even built in your base, depends on your doctrine.
That way, though the luftwaffe/armored doctrine could both see relatively well trained "standard" troop choices, a "desperate defense" doctrine could see the uses of volksgrenadier as an addition to the basic infantry or even some captured T-34 russian tanks(which practices german often made use of, putting a german flag or swatiska ontop of the tank so bombers on their side wouldn't mistake them for the enemy) for their armor along with older models called from the reserve.

Also, my pardons if my writing is hard to read at times. Sadly english isn't my first language.

[Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy]

Welcome to the forums.
An interesting read, and I like the ideas of phase based doctrines. They would fit with the Russian doctrines and their way of building units, equalling/requiring (especially in larger games) a "combined arms" based Army.

I believe though you may have miss taken our focus on the Russians (the centre of any Eastern Front mod), as the wish to only include them in our mod. We are most defiantly creating a German force, which will be a slightly easier and somewhat quicker task (than the creation of the Russians) due to what we have planned.

[TheAllMihtyOne]

great speach! good reading also, though scorched earth would fit on the russian scuse they burned the way for the krauts so there was nothing left when they advanced..

[ludov]

My pardons. I didn't meant to insinuate you were not going to. Actually I was referring to the fact, based on my memory, that any german faction probably could only come after the russians themselves were made first.

Though I am thankful you appreciated my read.

And the scorched earth example was meant less to be a proper scorched earth, but more a representation of how desperate the germans had become(if my memory serves me well) during the later stage of the war such as when (during the battle of stalingrad iirc) the germans basically were fighting thooth and nail to prevent the russians from retaking Stalingrad. In a way, it probably should be an urban fighting doctrine, with the option to have troops get into "ambush" when taking cover within a building and I probably would see some kind of debris barricade being made as well(which could also be used, if such a battle is ever included, for a Battle of Berlin) that could be layed out in lines like sandbags(and provide similar cover) but also serve a double duty as tank traps(though, to keep them balanced compared to PE's roadblocks, still be crushable by heavy tanks).

[VassilyGrossman]

Hi, interesting read. I don't think having a German urban doctrine would be brilliant just because that is where they made their mistakes. Out in the open they were unbeatable until the turning points of Kirsk and Stalingrad.  German supremacy in the air didn't count for much as the Russians were so close to the Germans that you were more likely to bomb your own men. Furthermore the rubble that was created was a terrible hold up for the German tanks. In the city tanks strengths are mitigated, with a combination of rubble and the limited elevation of turrets making them easy targets for anti-tank rifles and schreks (if the Russians had captured them). The manouverability was completely squashed, if it wasn't for Hitler's intervention I am sure the German General staff would have much prefereed to siege Stalingrad just like they sieged Leningrad in the north.

Just my thoughts