1.23 ZisAT

[BasileusHotshot]

http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/replays.php?game=25&show=details&id=140150&st=0#post7546680 [nofollow]

Am I the only one to think that a vet1 Tiger shouldn't be penetrated that often by unvetted AT guns and especially at that range? I mean seriously, the Tiget didn't deflect a single shot!!! They all penetrated! 

[Paciat]

All shells would probably penetrate Tigers armor if fired less than 60m (max range of Zis 2 gun ingame) away.

[BasileusHotshot]

That's exactly my point. Am I the only one who finds it a bit OP?

[GodlikeDennis]

Seeing as I was the one in that particular match, I can say that I'm not sure if they're that OP. I mean, at the time I didn't know they existed and when I saw just one of them I tried to get in behind it and kill it before a 2nd one came out. Little did I know he already had a 2nd one. In the position I was in, I would've probably lost that Tiger to 57mms as well. Maybe their penetration could be toned down slightly but usually the fact that they haven't got great accuracy balances them. They have disgustingly huge range though.

What definitely needs toning down is the pentration of the SU85. There is absolutely no reason to upgrade to SU100s when these already penetrate EVERYTHING.

[Seeme]

The upgrade gives it more damage and I think health points

[BasileusHotshot]

I understand what you mean Dennis, but still, the base penetration of an AT gun, shouldn't be like that. Improved penetration should be part of a "special action" be it improved shells for 17pdrs and 57mms, camo for paks, or lockdown for Marders.

The crucial seconds between your Tiger charging and the opponnent performing that "special action" can cost, or make a game. Not to mention that all the aforementioned bonuses come with a price: AT shells cost munis, Camo only gets 1 shot, while it can also be manually detected and the Marder is forced to stay still. When comparing those 5 basic AT guns of the game, I believe that the Zis is much more capable than all the rest. 

[GodlikeDennis]

It is also permanently gone when decrewed, something to take into account. That's its special action.

[Zerstörer]

That's exactly my point. Am I the only one who finds it a bit OP?

That's like saying the Pak is OP vs the Pershing...which btw gets no damage reduction from vet unlike the Tiger.
You should know by now that WH doesn't enjoy the same level of armour quality vs the soviets as it does vs the allies.

[Kolaris]

Agreed with Dennis, in this game it wasn't the ZiS-2 that was ridiculous but the SU85.

I think part of the reason we saw almost no SU100s in the Tourny is because there's no point if the SU85 already penetrates everything.

ZiS-2's have a huge disadvantage in not being able to recrew, that's a huge con atm.

[Seeme]

If the ZiS-2 could recrew, then I think the Devs would lessen the stats.

[BasileusHotshot]

Well as I said, I don't use the Su-85 much, so I guess you guys know better.

As for the Zis2: Since I see it's high penetration has a lot of funs, how about reducing a bit the basic Zis2's penetration, but once upgraded, give it the current penetration figures of the unupgraded Zis2?

And Mr Blackbishop, I believe you didn't notice my PM. I'd appreciate a reply. Thanks 

[Blackbishop]

@BasileusHotshot
Replied.

Well IMO the ZiS is ok, after all it can't be recrewed as Kolaris and GodlikeDennis stated earlier.

[BasileusHotshot]

@BasileusHotshot
Replied.

Thanks man. I just put it in public, cos it happened to me in the past to have PMs and not notice it