wermacht t3 against russia, 1.21

[Joshua9]

me and my friend have been trading off russia vs. wehr, and as wehr we've been just getting stomped.

I know we need to figure out what works, etc. 

but what does not work is tier 3 in any capacity at the moment. 

should t90's really shred pumas?  they already shred infantry, much better than any other vehicle I know of, and they do it from range.  They shred pumas from range as well by the way.

so knowing this(I had gone t3 before he played his hand with the light vehicle upgrades), I kept my puma away from him, and brought a stug out, which made his light vehicles run away....just to come back with the su 88?(name?)  which hard counters the stug. 

that leaves nothing in that tier that can help me against light vehicles. The russian tech choice seems to render the whole thing useless. 

If I'm missing something, I would love to see some replays as to exactly how t3 is supposed to be used against russians.

Also, for a faction that is so strong in the beginning of the game, so far it seems like they scale much better than brit or american.  They seem really powerful by end game.  Their tanks, especially in volume, get monsterous.

those su's also seem way too effective at killing infantry...a few of them together seem to be a pretty effective first strike against anti tank infantry which should be a more effective counter. 


i

[AbhMkh]

I'm generally an allied player , i shouldn't be telling you this however now tht you ask...


Russian armor is by and far better than wehr armor , however most russian tanks lack range , so use the paks supported by infantry en masse , also by the time you reach tier 3 vet up your armor , use panthers if you can afford to (they should be the first choice in 1 vs 1 combat) , however if you cant then use a panzer 4 or a gwagon , dont try stugs they fail miserably

[Budwise]

Go T2-T3.  One or two PAK's first, then T3, then rape.  T1-T3 has always been weak.

[Joshua9]

hmmm,

traditionally weak maybe but not impossible,

without going into ways that you can beat russians, i'm more concerned about just how unviable a t3 move is.  I don't think that it's good for the metagame if there is a pronounced approach to how to play against russians.  It's obviously early for me to declaire that there aren't numerous viable strategies for fighting htem, even if I were a top player, which I'm not.  I don't think that's true either, but the matchup is SOO drastic.  pumas and stugs are HARD countered by russian light vehicles.   They are also countered effectively by tank hunters(with at mines) backed up by at guns, and they are also hard countered by russian heavy tanks.  They have very little place to be effective. 

And When would you use stugs?  They get bested by upgraded armor, and they get bested by su88s.  They have no role to play at all, or so it seems to me, unless the russian uses unupgraded t-34's.

as to paks, t90's actually do a pretty good job of making short work of them too.  Yeah they hit them hard, but  It's not so difficult to drive up on one. and once past the barrel, thats a successful decrewing. 

I really like the vehicle, but i'm surprised you guys don't think there's any problem with its current balance.  Or, put as a question, is there some gaping hole in russian anti-vehicle that requires it to be this good against pumas,  I just haven't discovered it yet?

[GodlikeDennis]

I agree with Bud. T2-3 is very effective. The best of both worlds. Personally I go Blitz and use MP44 stormies vs troops with Paks for AT until I go T3.

Stormies are an absolute must if you're skipping straight to T3. Upgrade with Shreks for AT. I'm also pretty sure an upgunned puma beats a T90, although it takes a HEAVY beating.

[Kinkas]

I'm also pretty sure an up-gunned puma beats a T90, although it takes a HEAVY beating.

If you use cover the puma wins as the T90's weapon is affected by it a lot more than the puma's also a puma can effectively skirmish with a T90 as well.

I do feel for T3 though, I miss the old Gwagon, its like it had a stroke, its a bit Gimp and occasionally wets its pants....

[Joshua9]

changes to 1.22 look great, thanks to the developers

[Zerstörer]

T90 wasn't right in previous 1.22 versions..in fact...it still isn't quite what it should be...next version will be just right I think.
T90 isn't supposed to damage any vehicle much...apart from bikes really...that's what the T70 is for.

SU-85 is rather fragile and its specialised AT more like a Marder. It can't stand up to infantry unlike the stug...and its more expensive.
Saying that, it is still one unit we're looking into more.

There is still room for balance improvement but we are very near now...we've certainly come a long way from 1.00 in 6 months

[Loupblanc]

 - Oh, I agree that T90 shouldn't eat up Pumas...
 It shames me to admit it, but I agree with you there
 - I do think if the T90 gets a nerf, then the T70 should
 get a buff It's got a 45 mm for crisssakes!

[Paciat]

 - Oh, I agree that T90 shouldn't eat up Pumas...
 It shames me to admit it, but I agree with you there
 - I do think if the T90 gets a nerf, then the T70 should
 get a buff It's got a 45 mm for crisssakes!

Does anyone even use T-70? How about giving T-70 better armor?
It was a very well armored light tank with a low profile so Cromwells armor would work well for it. It would still be weaker than a 50mm Puma or a PE PzIV.
EDIT: T-70 and Stuart were allmost the same but who cares. Cromwells and Stuarts armor dont differ much when it comes to Skreck fire.